Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/06/25 10:09Hello, everyone!
I have a question, if anyone knows the answer to this: is it possible to check mate the adversary only with a Knight and a Bishop? From what I knew, it's quite impossible but someone else also told me that it is possible . Please enlighten me if you know! And if it is possible, in which situation can one do that? Thanks!
Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/06/25 13:45it is possible . If memory serves , you need to drive the opponents king into the corner that is the same coloured square as the bishop .
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/06/26 02:59It is the most difficult of the "elementary mates" though, so much so that even masters sometimes feel the need to play it out. If you start with the lone King in the middle, the worst case can take about 30 moves I think, close to danger zone for the 50 move rule.
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/06/26 13:31itz wrote: It is the most difficult of the "elementary mates" though, so much so that even masters sometimes feel the need to play it out. If you start with the lone King in the middle, the worst case can take about 30 moves I think, close to danger zone for the 50 move rule.
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/06/29 20:48grobler wrote: itz wrote: It is the most difficult of the "elementary mates" though, so much so that even masters sometimes feel the need to play it out. If you start with the lone King in the middle, the worst case can take about 30 moves I think, close to danger zone for the 50 move rule.
and almost never occurs anyway !
Even knowing that this endgame is very rare it may be usefull to have a look at it. You probably learn a lot of the cooperation between two minor pieces, which you can use in a lot of games.
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/06/30 12:20Even knowing that this endgame is very rare it may be usefull to have a look at it. You probably learn a lot of the cooperation between two minor pieces, which you can use in a lot of games.
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/07/27 11:49I also agree. The visualisation of the knight's potential seems to be the main benefit from learning this mate. He plays the vital role of blocking certain "small" escape routes. The mouse (king) must not be allowed to "squeeze" out!
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/07/27 11:58For a good description of the process, Yuri Averbach has a very good part in his famous book on "elementary" end game play.
Capablanca and (I think) Reinfeldy have described it also.
When you have learnt all this, perhaps you can work on the problem I have in another place here proposed of Two bishops versus Knight only Kings else being on the board. And yoy can then explain to me how to do it.
To win KBN-K you first have to force the king to the 8th rank. If the king escapes to his safe corner then, moving the knight like a "W" (c7-d5-e7-f5-g7) is the key solution to remember, the bishop does not allow Black's escape to the safe corner and the White king steps towards the winning corner on the 6th rank.
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/08/20 23:24KBNvK is a forced win, but it can take as many as about 37 moves against the best defense. The best explanation of how to prosecute this mate that I've seen is in "The Game of Chess" by Dr. Siegbert Tarrasch. The book came out in the early 1930's in descriptive notation, but Hay's Publishing came out with a recent edtion in algabraic notation. A classic book!
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/10/06 15:23It's difficult but Bishop-Knight combination can force checkmate; and so are 2 Bishops (easier). But I think 2 Knights can't force checkmate.
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/10/10 03:15Charlie92 wrote: It's difficult but Bishop-Knight combination can force checkmate; and so are 2 Bishops (easier). But I think 2 Knights can't force checkmate. Two knights cannot force checkmate. Ironically, though, the two knights can often mate if the defender has a pawn.
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/10/10 08:26They cannot force the checkmate indeed, but two knights be in a checkmate position, but only under certain circumstancers. Not impossible! I've done that several times
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/10/10 13:19Hi IoanaAda, 2 knights can checkmate with opponent's cooperation only, otherwise you are always faced with stalemate. 2N versus opponent's pawn can chechmate in some conditions, and perhaps this is the most difficult of all "elementary" mates. It's hardly worth to study it, it may occure once in a lifetime (in 40 years of chess I had one like that - fortunately on the strong side, and I won). Same can be said for the endgame 2B vs. N Some found a computer algorythm which wins but one needs to be a young genius to learn it. B+N mate is not so complicate, it's based on some large, medium and small "triangle cages". Of all simple endgames with minimal advantage, which are between win and draw, the most instructive is R+B vs. R. Study the Philidor position (strong side wins) and your chess will certainly improve. Learning a good defence with R vs. R+B is also useful. You may find those in many comprehensive books on endgames, e.g, Fine, Averbach, etc. In your language, best is Lisitzin. For complex endgames look for books by Mihai Radulescu. For your general chess understanding, your author should be Sergiu Samarian. My first chess book was a fantastic "300 selected games of A.Alekhine" by Panov. The eBook "Dynamic Chess Strategy" will also come out in Romanian (by the end of the year http://menssana.co.uk ), but you should grow up a few years, before reading that.
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/10/10 13:25Thanks alot !! I'll have a look at those! And you're right, you do have to have a bit of cooperation from the oponent in order to obtain that kind of checkmate. I never said it is easy though. Not impossible either!
Re:Chess with Bishop and Knight - 2007/10/28 05:48loanaAda I ENJOYED THE QUESTION AND READING ALL THE ANSWERS YOU WERE GIVEN, I AM JUST A BEGINNER, BUT AM ENJOYING ALL THE KNOWLEDGE OF PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM
AM LOOKING FORWARD TO MORE OF YOUR QUESTIONS, SO I MAY LEARN ALSO
post new topic
but someone else also told me that it is possible 
. Please enlighten me if you know! And if it is possible, in which situation can one do that? Thanks! 
Not impossible either! 