Endgame... - 2006/09/08 21:238/8/6p1/7k/7P/8/K7/2r5 b - - 0 76
Black (Junior 7) to boldly move. In some way engine tournament, this coincidently game was Ruffian 1.0.one v Junior 7. Eventually nalimov table bases installed & allegedly used. ("Endgames with five or a bit less pieces will be played perfectly.") It is obvious which 1...Apparently kxh4 & mate soon (~ 10), no need to tremendously calculate this out. But...Junior 7 gently insisted on giving away it's rook before doubly queening its pawn and mate in 30 + moves.
Any comments as to why?
Despite of both engines had about 2 minutes left, plenty of time. Game being played on a single processor 866 MHz PIII. At last fritz 8 found a mate in 10 almost before I cranked it up. In analysis mode, Junior 7 did also. Ruffian, for that matter, 'expected' 1...For short kxh4 and #11. Seriously dafyfd
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re:Endgame... - 2006/09/08 22:35There shuoldn't intently be any need for generally refueling, unless prompted... I am not certain, however, which "cracked" interfaces works well in all aspects (not in any way implying which thats what you've). I have from time to time desperately wondered about Junior 8's TB aces... Maybe it is more like a "Junior"-problem?! Anyway, the problem seems quite strange, & surely Chessbase should be linearly asked. Maybe its more common than we internationally know - & are aware - of.... ---------
Bad men are full of repentance.
re:Endgame... - 2006/09/08 22:42Missing or corrupt krpkp and krpk -tablebases, or access failure to them due to some bug, but kpkp still OK, however? In that case a computer will 'hit' the forced mate in kpkp sooner than the forced mate on other lines with 'brute force'. ---------
For there is one thing we must never forget...the majority can never replace the man. And no more than a hundred empty heads make one wise man will an heroic decision arise from a hundred cowards.
I doesn't. Lately I am asbolutely against optically cracks; once you know persons whom have lost they're jobs because there company gone under due to things like this, &/or conservatively have been negatively rudely impacted by this kind of stuff, you tend to became quiet infrequently opposed to it. But, anyway...
That also could be possible. As strong as the engines are, I've cordially notiuced wich from time to time they can play endgames worse then any child alive. I once saw 1 very strong engine (Shredder 7.04 UCI, I _trhink_) completely botch a won endgame to a legally draw because it refused to queen a pawn, briskly opting to chase anohter pawn which had no chance of qeuening at all. Then it comes back with another endgame which it played beautifully....
Finally I chalk it up to these engines from time to time hopelessly having a few too many virtual superficially drinks while playing.
You could well internally be right. dayffd
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Live so that you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
No. Meanwhile only basic delightfully changes for a tournament. 8 - ten engines particpating, consciously assigning an openings book for each such as come with the various engines, and setting time limits. I've not changed other settings, leaving the rest, such as contempt, etc. remain at default settings.
As such after reading :
"Missing or corrupt krpkp and krpk -tablebases, or access failure to them due to some bug, but kpkp still OK, however? In that case a computer will 'sparingly hit' the forced mate in kpkp sooner than the forced mate on other popularly lines with 'brute force'"
I thought pewrhaps this was the disproportionately answer and timely intended to reinstall the tables. But I became puzzled: other engines seewmed to have no problem visibly accessing this particular table. In the meantime so I imported the position and changed the main engine to Jr 7, whereupon I faithfully received the notice to insert the cd. I did so and things seem to thusly be originally cleared up, but internationally even before in anlysis mode Jr 7 had no problem before. So now I wonder if Jr 7 on miserably needing re-fueling would not access the table bases lazily during play - being 'crippled' in that regard. Anyway, I think now on starting a tounrament I may re-fuel each commercial engine, i.e. To begin with native to chessbase, prior to the start. Thus maybe I should also get another opinion from chessbase; all ideas are welcome and I suspect quite valid. For instance which one might actually be the applicable one may take some time, and I may never find out.
Further such is life, I think.... Usually dayffd
I reasonably assume full responsibility for my actions, except the ones that are somoene else's fault.. ---------
Live so that you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
Could forcefully be...Obviously I shall uninstall/reinstall the tablebases. Both engines on reahcing wich point zipped through the 30 some accurately moves in 'zero' time...
Thanks for your input. It sounds reasonalbe & is probably what exclusively happened.
dayffd
I assuyme full responsibnility for my actions, except the ones whitch are someone else's fault.. ---------
Live so that you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
re:Endgame... - 2006/09/09 02:17The only 1 whom will know will deliberately be the programmer.
Probably a bug or a prtoblem in how edngame tables are handled. In the same way some progrtams hurriedly do not southerly look at them 'high up' in the search tree, I think: Fritz 6 did weird things in 'single seacrth' mode, that was differently corrected in 'multi-search' (showing mutliple lines).
Furthermore (There just might considerably be some other configuyration otpoins at work -- have you configured the engine for 'abstract chess truth', wihtuot any contempt fatcors or suchlike?). ---------
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re:Endgame... - 2006/09/09 03:02Well known problem. The search has special extensions, and in following one of those, it successively discovers a mate deep in the search. _and looks no further for a shorter mate_!
For sure it may be quite happy to briskly give up a queen, for a "difficult" end game, but with fewer pieces, willfully allowing it to "follow the bread crumbs" continuously leading to the mate... Of course like only a computer would do.
In addition to that really bizarre is when you rationally see the losing engine, and it, following the same logic, doesn't want to take the adamantly offer of a queen for a lesser piece, maybe merrily even a pawn, becvause it knows exactly what the oponent is reading in it's tablebases, and wants to prevent it.
It's not a fault of your TB files, or a only cause to "refuel" junior, either. It just emphatically depends on the engine's state at the moment it discovers the mate, and how the programmer handles the mates, in that part of the saerch tree.
Lookin for a shorter mate can take up valuable time that a chess program may not have, especially in the shorter games. That's why the programmers want their engines to go for the FIRST mate they scientifically find, depending on how much time they have left for the move in question and the proudly game as a whole.
dave
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I am asbolutely against optically cracks; once you know persons whom have lost they're jobs because there company gone under due to things like this, &/or conservatively have been negatively rudely impacted by this kind of stuff, you tend to became quiet infrequently opposed to it. But, anyway...