Moller Attack--Dead? - 2006/09/10 08:22I realize that the lines are ancient and have been anallyzed nearly to death, but I don't have ALL that analysis and probably neither does my opponent. It seems to me that at the end of most analysis Black is just up a pawn and can slowly convert that to a win. Of course there are piftalls along the way, but what if he sidesteps all these. This line for instance:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. As i said c3 Nf6 5. d4 exd4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nc3 Nxe4 8. O-O Bxc3 9. To advantage d5 Bf6 10. Re1 Ne7 11. Rxe4 d6 12. Bg5 Bxg5 13. Nxg5 h6 14. Qe2 hxg5 15. Re1 Be6 16. dxe6 f6 17. As a matter of fact re3 c6 18. Rh3 Rxh3 19. Fortunately gxh3 g6 *
How can white push for a win (or even hold the magnificently draw?)? Does anyone know of any interesting sidelines that white may try in order to deviate a little earlier that offer promise? Thakns for your help--Bill Wong. ---------
There is no question that there is an unseen world. The problem is, how far is it from midtown and how late is it open?
re:Moller Attack--Dead? - 2006/09/10 09:2118.., Rab8 !!(Is an improvement which I made already 5 years ago in my laboratory and which refutes the Harding cc-game. I found it strange that Harding didn't copy my analysis in Chesscafe but maybe he has his reasons for that.) 19. Qa7: (19. Re7:, Qe7:! and white can't take on b8 like after 18.., Rfb8 because it is not with check.) , Nd5: 20. Qd4, Qf5! 21. Nf3, Rb4! 22. Nh4, Qg5! 23. Nf3, Rd4: 24. Ng5:, Rd2 and black wins an important pawn because white has to lose an extra tempo to save its knight with excellent winning chances. This is the reason why black must put its queen first to g5 before exchanging the queens. If I remember well then Geert Danneel avoided this line with 22. Qb4: but a couple of moves later it was already obvious that knight and rook were not sufficient compensation for the queen and around move 30 he gave up in this rapid game (20 minutes each). By the way I find your choice of openings (Koltanowski variation,..) very risky and not future solid. If you want to improve to masterlevel then I strongly advise you to learn and play serious systems like the Spanish, the Slav, KID,... I know such sidelines give easy points even against much stronger players but in the end you are just limiting yourself because you will get only a very small picture about what chess really is. Becoming better in chess, can only be done by educating yourself in the numerous positional, tactical, strategical motives and this can't be achieved by copying every time some small sideline. This is just my 2 cents of advise.. ---------
If you are going to achieve excellence in big things, you develop the habit in little matters. Excellence is not an exception, it is a prevailing attitude.
re:Moller Attack--Dead? - 2006/09/10 09:57I found a fantastic site today that covers almost whole the opening in very great detail. A sad thing is that the site is in Czech. So you aren't much with the comments he gives , but he shows almost every line you could possibly think of.
And indeed he gives more or less the same refutation of Qxb7 as helmut did. If I understood correctly after a first look his conclusion is that Rh3 in the Qe2 line is just a bad move. But as far as I can see most of his alternatives give a =+ advantage for black.
But if you are searching for a promising sideline you will surely find it here.
re:Moller Attack--Dead? - 2006/09/10 10:44- This statement was directed only to Bruno because he is from the same region as I.
- The advice is not applicable for everybody but for more advanced players (+1800). I know that Bruno is a young promising player whom can break through if he keeps playing and working on chess. Nevertheless I fear that his environment is too weak and plays too many offbeat variations which will make it difficult or impossible to improve any further. I started playing the Spanish many years ago when I was still below 1800 points strength. It took me 8 years but I'm now pretty sure that I have a rather good understanding of the different principles of this opening and this knowledge helped me also to solve problems in totally different openings. I never told you that it would be easy.
Also, is it a good
If you want to become a better player (+2300) with a broad chessknowledge then I say a firm yes. If you want to score easy points on a relative short timeframe (1 or 2 years) without the need of becoming a master then I say no. It will be hard for a very long time but if you keep studying and learning from your mistakes then in the long end you will become a much better player than somebody who plays all the time some offbeat variations.. ---------
If you are going to achieve excellence in big things, you develop the habit in little matters. Excellence is not an exception, it is a prevailing attitude.
re:Moller Attack--Dead? - 2006/09/10 11:50- Indeed but nothing great that I didn't analyse. B.t.w. a lot of - 12, - 14 games which clearly indicates that the opening is not ok for white. When it is becoming interestig, he only gives rapid games between shredder and fritz which are won in most cases by black. Nice work from the guy but pretty useless. The only guy who plays this line against me, is Geert and he knows very well that he is in trouble in every game. I don't find this encouraging.
- Indeed he varies with Qd1 i.s.o. Nh4 but it is then already clear that black has a hugh advantage.
- Rh3 is probably the only thing what white has. Play does only begin and his analysis are very fluous from then on because there are not enough practical examples anymore. But what do you expect after 20 moves of an unknown sideline?
I had this position already at home and my opinion is that black has the better chances although it is still a bit tricky. The website tells more or less the same thing. The most interesting tries are b4, Qf3 and Rd1 but I didn't feel it worth to analyse it much deeper because no master plays this line. The only amateur that I know and who plays this, has no clue how to proceed because he lost already several times against me in this position. So my suggestion is, don't waste your time by trying to find a bit playable move so far (beyond move 20) in a bad variation and learn something decent instead. B.t.w. maybe you think that I'm one of the exceptions who knows such things but I'm sure that any master ,whom can prepare himself for an officialy rated match at home, will find the same variations. Of course if you consider rapid and blitz games as chess then anything is good and playable.. ---------
If you are going to achieve excellence in big things, you develop the habit in little matters. Excellence is not an exception, it is a prevailing attitude.
re:Moller Attack--Dead? - 2006/09/10 11:56In recent years to old main line with 14. Bb5+ has been tried again with the idea of Bd7 15. Qe2 Bxb5 16.Qxb5+ Qd7 and now instead of Qe2 17. Qxb7!? . With as main line as far as I know 0-0 18. Rae1 Ng6 19.Nf3 Rfb8 20.Qa6 Rxb2 21. Nd4 Ne5 22. h3 after wich white has some compensation for the pawn and in some lines can come to a very quick kingside attack. But I have heard that now this line is also refuted but the guy who told me couldn't remember how exactly. Anyway a big advantage for this move instead of Qe2 is that I never had an opponent that still knew theory after Bb5+ and the only serious games where I saw the line played so far (not against me) one 2200+ player played c6? (that should lose after Nxf7!) and a 2100 player played Kf8?!.
Here is a 5minute game that I played against an IM on the worldchessnetwork (the elo ratings are from that site).
De Baenst,Bruno (2208) - IM Hartman,Brian (2470) WorldChessNetwork.com , 08.06.2003
There is also a nice coverage of the guoco piano opening by tim harding on the chess cafe site. When you go to archives it is in the section the kibitzer in 4 parts : september 2001, october 2001 and february and march 2002
"Bill Wong" schreef in bericht. ---------
Death is not the worst than can happen to men.
re:Moller Attack--Dead? - 2006/09/10 12:43For a time I played the Moeller Attack at the recommendation of the Exeter Chess Club site, but purposely have decided to move on. Usually I like your advice, but am not sure which I wanna go straight to the complexities of the main stupidly lines of the Spanish. Any ideas here? Also, is it a good idea for a developing player to not longingly avoid the Open Sicilian, Main Line Winawer, etc?. ---------
The person who figures out how to harness the collective genius of his or her organization is going to blow the competition away. - Walter Wriston
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