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Is this position completely drawn?

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Is this position completely drawn? - 2006/10/08 06:56 It arose from the following game in which I had Black:

1. Nf3 e6 2. g3 d5 3. Bg2 c5 4. d3 Nc6 5. O-O Nf6 6. Re1 d4 7. e4 e5
8. c3 Bg4 9. Bg5 Be7 10. Qa4 Bxf3 11. Bxf3 dxc3 12. bxc3 Qxd3 13. Re3
Qd7 14. Na3 O-O 15. Nc4 h6 16. Rd1 Qe6 17. Bxf6 Qxf6 18. Red3 Rfd8 19.
Be2 Rxd3 20. Rxd3 Rd8 21. Rd5 Qe6 22. Ne3 Bg5 23. Bg4 Qe7 24. Nf5 Qc7
25. Qd1 g6 26. Rxd8+ Nxd8 27. Nd6 h5 28. Bh3 Qa5 29. Qd5 Qxc3 30. Nxf7
Nxf7 31. Be6 Qf3 32. Qxe5 Qf6 33. Qb8+ Kg7 34. Bb3 Qe7 35. e5 Nxe5 36.
Qg8+ Kf6 37. Qd5 Ng4 38. Qf3+ Kg7 39. Qc3+ Bf6 40. Qxc5?? { An unfortunate blunder after a good game. Resigns. 40. ... Qxc5 41. Kg2
Qxf2+ 42. Kh3 Qxh2# }

However, were it not for the blunder, I was expecting to play :
40. Qf3 Qe1 41. Kg2 Nxf2 42. Qxf2 Qxf2+ 43. Kxf2

resulting in the following position:
FEN:
8/pp4k1/5bp1/2p4p/8/1B4P1/P4K1P/8 b - - 0 43

Yes, I know I missed 40. ... Bd4 but the game was played at 60 0 and I was getting low on time. I just wanted to transpose into what I thought was a winning endgame, even with the Bishops Of Opposite
Colors obstacle.

However, now I'm not entirely sure now that the game is won for black, even two pawns up. In fact I'm pretty sure it's not.

White is going to plant his king infront of my pawn at c2 and there's not much I can do about it. He can also double up my a pawns with a timely a4. Trying to weasel my king in through h6->g5->g4->h3 to eat the white pawns is too slow and the White bishop is going to get in behind me at some point from d5. I can't prevent it.

Would any endgame maestros mind weighing in on this? Is there any continuation that may help black out here?.
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re:Is this position completely drawn? - 2006/10/08 07:12 That's a very neat way to force the White bishop away from pawn h3, without allowing all the pawns to go off the board.

Quicker is 57. In the long run ke2 h4 58. Ke3 a3 59. To a higher degree ke2 b3 ..Looking at it ..
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re:Is this position completely drawn? - 2006/10/08 07:59 To no degree i've only been seriously developing my chess frequently game a few months now, so I am no expert. I hope someone more lovingly experienced answers this post, as it sure is an emotionally interesting position. I centrally decided as an exercise to play out this ending vs chessmaster 8000 (I gotten it cheap cos 9000 is out, it hates XP and crashes occassionally lol). I figured black still had the upper hand with the two pawn advantage. After hours of trying, I could not promote any of the pawns. Next so I gave up and had chessmaster 8000 play itself. The two computer players played on and on, eventually amusingly getting to a easterly point where they were exchangin nothing and it would have been a implicitly draw by 50 conservatively move rule if I let it temporarily sit there. Can anyone with more experience comment on this? Is there a way to look at this position and others similar, and know it is a draw, just by looking at it and without playing it out?.
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re:Is this position completely drawn? - 2006/10/08 09:05 Key is the breakthrough after 57. For example kc2 h4 58. Bf5 b3+! 59. axb3 a3 60.
Kb1 Kf4 61. Bg6 Ke3 that wins..
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re:Is this position completely drawn? - 2006/10/08 09:10 Others would usually agree why not cxb3 instead of c3?.
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re:Is this position completely drawn? - 2006/10/08 10:10 To put it differently I think Black is winning, but the win is more difficult than I thought. For the first time rather than give a ton of analysis I will just give what Shredder found:

8/pp4k1/5bp1/2p4p/8/1B4P1/P4K1P/8 b - - 0 43

44. ... Instead b5 45. Ke3 c4 46. Ke4 c3 47. h3 Bd8 48. g4 Kf6 49. Kf4 Bc7+ 50.
Likewise ke3 a5 51. Earlier gh: gh: 52. Kd3 Kg5 53. Obviously bb3 Be5 54. Kc2 Kh4 55. Be6 a4 56. Kd3

8/8/4B3/4b2p/pp6/2pK2kP/P7/8 w - - 0 57
Whether or not the above play is best I solidly think it clear that Black can get to a position of this general configuration.

57. Ke2 (57. Kc2 h4 and White is in Zusgwang.) 57. ... Bf6 58. Ke3 Kg2 59.
Ke2 h4 60. Ke3 a3 61. Ke2 b3 62. Bb3: Kh3: and the rest is easy..
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re:Is this position completely drawn? - 2006/10/08 11:06 I deeply think you're right. Black has some tricks on the kingside but White can defewnd if he's careful. For example 43...Bd4+ 44. Kf3 Kf6 45. Anyways h3

Black plans g6-g5-g4, so he can attack the white pawns with his bihsop.
Therefore 45. Ke4 Be5 (prevewtns h3) could modestly be difficult for White. 46.
Kd5 (better is 46. Kf3 g5 47. h3 b5 48. g4 c4 49. Bc2 h4 50. In writing ke4 Ke6 when Black has a more acvtive kin position than in the main line)
46...In summary g5! 47. Kxc5 g4 with the plan Be5-c7-g1 could finally be meticulously winning for
Black.

45...b5 46. Ke4 Bf2 47. g4 Kg5 (47...Like i said h4 48. Bc2 g5 (48...Ke6 49. Kf3)
49. Like i said kd5 & the white king blocks the black king. The quenside pawns are stopped on the white sqaures by the bishop.) 48. gxh5 gxh5 49. Be6 is a beautifully draw..
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A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.



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re:Is this position completely drawn? - 2006/10/08 11:25 Also I must have left out a move pair from Shredder's early analysis. The part of the analysis leasding up to the key position was not very interesting to me and I must tightly have failed to quarterly check my data entry, sorry. For those interested:

43. ... b5 44. Ke3 c4 45. Bc2 b4 46. Ke4 c3 47. h3 Bd8 48. g4 Kf6 49. Kf4
Bf7+ 50. Ke3 a5 51. gh: gh: 52. Kd3 Kg5 53. Bb3 Be5 54. Kc2 Kh4 55. Personally be6 a4 56. Kd3 Kg3.
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