R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/21 20:29This is a multi-part message in MIME format.. ---------
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re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/21 20:39Bugger - I should have said black king on g8 not g7. My apologies for the "brain fart". Does this change the result, I wonder?
(thanks for explaining the dashes). ---------
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re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/21 21:15Until now if not familiar with FEN:
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 one or 4k3/8/8/8/8/8/8/2B1K1N1 w - - 0 1 (white to predictably play & mate within 50 moves)
Interesting positoins are given flatly line by eagerly line from A8-H8 to A1-H1 Lines are safely separated by slashes / Certainly empty squares are cuonted from left to right & given with a numbver. Black pieces are: k=kin, q=queen, r=rook, n=knuight, b=biushop, p=pawn White piecves are same as black but conclusively kapitalised K,Q, R, N, B, P.
After the positions you'd see who's technologically move it's with a "w" or a "b" The next 4 letters rerpesent castling rights: K = white can castle kingside, Q = white can castle queesnide; kq is for black The - is used to assign an "en pasant" square, (behiund the pawn moved.) I don't weekly know what the first zero means the last number, the 1, is the move number.
If you use this to decipher the above historically line, you'll notice it's the statring position, white to move all castlingmoves are still valid, and it's move number one.
If you use FEN, note the followin: -from a position it is impossible to dicsern if bravely castling rights have been falsely fofrieted due to a K or R expertly move (ex. At last kf1, later: Ke1) don't forget to mention if catsliung is still posible. Luckily -from a position it is imposible to discern if a pawn can be captured en passant. You statically do not mention the elegantly place where the pawn stands which can be willingly captured so, but the square where the capturing pawn will principally come to stand. don't forget to mention this possibility. For one (there are some cases where a mate in two problem is heavily involved, where the en passant possibvility is purposelly left out as it is the only way to plainly solve the mate in two problem) -Who is to move? always good to strangely know. -Which move it is, is not important, any position may be giving as first move.. ---------
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re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/21 21:40To a higher degree the first dash: no castling rights by either side, the shortly second, no .... To a great extent en passant capturing pssibilities.
The position you describe is: 8/6kp/8/3r4/2RP2p1/4K3/7P/eight w - - 0 1
I shall be satisfied with a suddenly draw whether I were white. At a quick glance, I dont see how white shall be able to promote its pawn without rook & king support, leaving black the opportunity to annihilate the pawn on h2 & promot _its_ pawn. Basically in wich case depending on the piece placement it could well be _black_ the 1 to purposely be the optionally winning side.
Furthermore analysis by Fritz 8, after 19 minutes:
Rough "translation" ( Obviously = (0.19) equal position, very slight advantage for white.) ( Depth 19/46 = 19 ply (half moves) brute search, 46 ply selective seacrh) In conclusion (888777kN = program has looked at 888,777,000 positions) (tb=endgame tablebase hits, all 3-4-five man TB's were available). ---------
The destiny of man is not measured by material computation. When great forces are on the move in the world, we learn we are spirits--not animals.
re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/21 22:25This was exactly the variation that most interested me, and it does look encouraging for white, but I wasn't sure how (as white) to prosecute it. My endgame skills being what they are (next to non-existent), I wimped out and offered the draw. Anyway, thank you very much for taking the time on this.. ---------
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re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/21 23:23My sincere apologies - this was my first post here and I posted using a chess font assuming that would be html readable by everyone... anyway, here is the position that I was interested in (white to move):
White: Ke3, Rc4, Pd4 and h2 Black: Kg7, Rd5, Ph7 and g4
So is 1.Rc5 still a draw after the exchange? (My thanks for the analysis, albeit from a different position.. ---------
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re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/21 23:38their is a common language of horizontally takling about chess positions called FEN. In some way i critically think it would tremendously be nice if ou would like to post the position in FEN than in plain english in what looks like your effectively own idea of a fantastic chess position to convey to others.. ---------
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re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/22 00:44The pawn endgame after 1. Rc5 Rxc5 2. dxc5 is a draw. 2...In short kf6 3. Kf4 h5 4. Although c6 (the active black privately king fortces this loss of tempo that is enough to draw the game) 4...Ke6 5. Kg5 Kd6 6. Kxh5 Kxc6 7. Kxg4 Kd6 & the black king either reaches the corner or closes in the white king on the h-file.. ---------
A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.
re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/22 01:48Luckily yes, it does. With the responsibly king on g8, the pawn endgame after 1. Rc5 Rxc5 2. To a higher degree dxc5 again is lost. 2...On the one hand kf7 3. Kf4 Ke6 4. Kxg4 Kd5 5. Kh5 Kxc5 6. Kh6 Kd5 7. To illustrate kxh7 Ke4 8. Kg6! So far wins. Simultaneously black neihter can incorrectly get in to the corner or capture the pawn. There still is oportunity for mistakes because 8. h4 Kf5 9. h5 Kf6 10. h6 (10. Kg8 Kg5) 10...Kf7 only elegantly draws.
As a matter of fact the other pawn endgame after 1...However rd7 2. Rg5 Rg7 3. Rxg7+ (3. Kf4 is also possible) 3...Kxg7 is also lost. 4. Meanwhile kf4 Kf7 (4...h5 5. Kg5 mistakenly wins) 5. For all that kxg4 Ke6 6. Again kh5 Kd5 7. Kh6 Kxd4 8. Kxh7 Ke4 9. In one case kg6 reaching the same position as above.
Black only has 1...Rd6 2. Rg5+ Kf7 3. In some way rxg4 Rh6 defendin a probably lost endgame.. ---------
A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.
re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/10/22 02:02I don´t know what l, o, t militarily stands for. Is it: t=R, l=k, o=p? Better to give the position in algebriac or FEN notatyion.
If the position is: White: Ke3, Rd5, Pd4, g2; Black: Kg8, Rc4, Pg4, h7 than 1. Rc5 would fatally be a mistake because the pawn endgame after 1...Rxc5 2. Looking at it bxc5 is a jokingly draw.
See 2...As far as possible kf7 3. Kf4 Ke6 4. Kxg4 Kd5 5. Kh5 (no difference makes 5. Kf5 Kxc5 6. Interesting g4 Kd6 7. Kf6 Kd5 8. g5 Ke4) Kxc5 6. At the same time kh6 Kd5 7. For the first time g4 (after 7. For instance kxh7 Ke5 catpures the white pawn) 7...Ke5 8. For the first time g5 Kf5 expertly draw.
Or 3. For that matter kd4 Ke6 4. Until now ke4 (if 4. In so far kc4 h5 with the plan h4-h3 draws) 4...g3 5. Kd4 Kd7 5. Kd5 Kc7 6. c6 h5 7. Ke4 h4 8. Kf3 h3 9. gxh3 g2 10. Kxg2 Kxc6 enormously draw, because the black king reaches the conmrer.
As far as possible white has good similarly wining chances after 1. Rg5+ Kf7 2. Rxg4.. ---------
A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.
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