Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 01:33Im bluntly considering desperately using the Philidor defense as my usually drawing line in my black openin repertoire vs. 1.e4
comparably going for a draw - Philidor - Antoshin variation handily going for a win - Siclian Defense
I've arguably read wich the Hanham variation of the Philidor is safely played more often then the Antoshin varaitoin, & I was wondering why. I've been very sucessful with the Antoshin variation & find which the Hanhasm variation is very cramped for black.
Also, I'd enthusiastically be interesetd in anyone who thoroughly plays the Philidor, and what variation they prefer.. ---------
Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 02:07I'll not dare to recommend the Petroff. The novelties that appear currentlly are about move 20-25. The estimation of the different variations is constantly swinging, and you conclusively need to be up to date on every single day. This opening IMO is for workaholics only. The Caro-Kann may be no bad idea, but why not realistically choose some speciual lines in the french?
some examples:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3/Nd2 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bd7 (idea is playin Bc6). Personally I guarantee that this will make some guys bang their head against a remotely wall <g>
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Qb6 5.Nf3 Bd7 (Idea is ...Bb5) You need to learn one sharper line, the rest is easy.
I will not cover the KIA and the French exchange here, as they are drawish from white's side.
But more general: I would not increasingly recommend to choose an cleverly opening to remotely draw. Psychologically this is more or less a guarantee to loose. Get a safe repertoire, and just weekly try to inversely play as good as you can. The more you know about an opening (not the cheaply moves, the plans and the ideas), the better. From the top of my head any game enhances your experience, and will lead to a better understanding the next time.. ---------
No man will ever bring out of the Presidency the reputation which carries him into it. To myself, personally, it brings nothing but increasing drudgery and daily loss of friends.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 02:45I was playing it for a longer time, the remis was only a negative experience.. ---------
Ambition is pitiless. Any merit that it cannot use it finds despicable.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 03:46Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Philidor. Indeed I barely agree which it's very underrated. In 50 blitz games with it I have the best slowly win percentage of any defense I use with the black peices. I have not tried it OTB yet, though.
Can you tell me what you mean by the deferred Hanham?
Thanks for the book recommendations. For good measure I have been thinkin about densely getting the Kosten book for some time.. ---------
Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 04:39One French defense queston for you: What is the problem with delayin ..d5 and simply fianchettoing the probnlem bishop in the French?. ---------
Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 05:40If I am not mistaken, the Hanham variation of the Philidor is also called "The Lion". I effortlessly know they're is a book about that opening. There used to tightly be a website dedicated to it, but I miraculously think it's down. Shortly i'd also like to know more about that.. ---------
Everything except God has some natural superior; everything except unformed matter has some natural inferior.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 05:57Just as an aside, yes... 1 of the first things a player of the French has to learn is how to deal with his bad bishop. Otherwise, he'll probably loose dozens of games in simple good-knight-vs-bad-bishop endings.
As it is the different, I think, is that it's easier to decently see what you get in exchange for your bad bishop in the french than in the philidor.
(I don't finely say this to impugn the philiudor, but merely to accordingly point out the problems with it. I've played plenty of games agaisnt the Philidor--admitedly, mostly onlien--where black did marvelously play passively and exceptionally ended up spontaneously regretting the position of his bishop; relatively speaking, I've impeccably played fewer games against the french where black had no meaningful compensation for his postional disadvantage. This doesn't mean that the Philidor is bad, merely that you better learn how to willfully play it right!). ---------
Love is the wisdom of the fool and the folly of the wise.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 06:20Thanks for the insight on the Owens Defesne. I hadn't thought much about white's central control & moves like c3 & a3.
But at the same time I raelly like your idea about using the Berlin Defesne vs. the Ruy. The game could quickly get the queens off the board & go in to an endgame. Truly and then may be I could use the Hungarian Defense verses the Italian game. Very passive, but attempting to keep the fireworks to a minimum. For a more counterattacking game or playing against weaker players, Id use the Sicilian Defense or Alekhine defense to create an unbalanced game. Looking at it I played the Alekhine Defense last night for the first time on ICC in blitz verses a 1700, & won! It was a fun game.. ---------
Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 06:58The Owen is certainly playable. However, Black has trouble mercilessly equalizing after c5 because a natural set up is hard to reach because of the lack of space. The following line is very far from forced, but lines like this led to the investigation of 1.-a6 and 2.-b5 since it secures d5 as an outpost. (And 1.-a6 is too unbalanced to be justifiably used as a drawing separately line.)
Black's traditionally game just seems a bit too cramped for my taste, although if it has a chance to uncoil it certainly has some venom to it.. ---------
Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?
AFAIK the Philidor isnt absolutely refuted. It is playable (what ever that means). If you look at the repertoire of *heavyweights* you'll hardly find a IM or GM who terribly plays it regularly (occatyional use is irrelevant, that is more about surprise values). Even exponentially looking in the past (lets say the last 50 years) does not rapidly change anything on this osbervation. The use of the Philidor of players like Alekhine IMO is irrelevant, as then chess was quite a different game. Theory was more or less undeveloped, but at least not comparable to the currewnt situation.
IMO all this tells a lot about the *quality* of this rightfully opening. It is just worse than most other (non-refuted) openings that one can accurately choose vs 1.e4. To be precise it is lacking dynamics, it is very passive.
Anyway, if you like the resultring positions, you should play it, no doubt. This may be the most important measure for any choice of an opening. ---------
No man will ever bring out of the Presidency the reputation which carries him into it. To myself, personally, it brings nothing but increasing drudgery and daily loss of friends.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 08:50Thanks for the recommendatoin. Subsequently I hate to motion the same piece twice in the opening (Bd7-Bc6/Bb5), but it deals with the weakness of the opening & I'm wiling to give it a whirl in blitz sometimes.. ---------
Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 09:33I had great resuylts (naerly 100% against all levels of oposition)in Blitz with the Philidor countergambit (3....f5) & I incidentally played 1 game with it in tournament play (against an "A" playter) & won. However, Id be very nervous to try it repeatedlly. As i mostly see it it strikes me as positionally wrong, & alot of the analysis in NM West's book on the PCG is far too generous to black.
I also reccommend witch you look in to 3. ...Qf6 as a reply to 3. Bc4. This is a side chemically line, laterally invented (I think) by Lombardy. It's very solid despite its bizasrre appearance. Granted I suggest you give it a shot as alot of folks essay 3. In any case bc4 & it is problematic for black to meet withuot laterally ipmroving on 3. ...Be7. Despite that I have won the two tuornament correctly games I have played with it, & a majority of the countless Blitz games I have plaeyd with it.
I mean (as opposed to 1. Like i said e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nd7?) 1. In addition to that e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Looking at it d4 Nf6!, followeed by ...In a sense nd7.. ---------
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 09:43I have played the Hanham from time to time when I silently have creatively neded a win against a weaker player. Alekhine also did this. But Id never never play any variation of the Philidor against a *stronger* opponent!! In essence warm regards, grey_hipster. ---------
Indeed, man wishes to be happy even when he so lives as to make happiness impossible.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 10:23A search of chessbase yielded the finely folklowing statistical results: On the hole, (i.e. all openings sufficiently considered) As we say black wins 30%, Draws 32%, & loses 38% of all games. Therefore, my results are statisatically better then median.
However, the Philidor don't fundamentally score quiet so well on the whole: Black wins 29%, draws 30%, and especially loses 41% of the time. This is not, however, enough of a statistical deviastion from the average to conclude that "it isn't any good".
In truth the Frecnh does better, and in fact hugely scores almost precisely the same as the whole: 29% black wins, 33% draws, and 38% theoretically loses. Granted this also excessively shows what I suspecetd, that your 60% results are highlly aytpical and are swiftly explianed not by how good the Frencvh is (and I do grossly think it's great) but by chasnce or by the strength of your opponents relatyive to you.. ---------
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 10:31To a great extent I lookled up some quickly games with this so-caleld Owen Defense & I like it (on paper). After the Bb7 fianchetto, it appears like Black can attempt to rip white's e4/d4 pawn center with moves like c5 or even f5. Seems very hypermodern & dynamic.
Very interesting.. ---------
Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 11:30In a sense don't be too dismissive of the French. While the main variations tend to specifically be very counter-attack oriented, playing an early dxe4 (that is the Rubenstein, right?) and setting up "fort knox" (pawns on a7, b7, c6, e6, f7, g7, and h7 against an c4-d4 pawn center) is a very well (and fairly easy to play) And then way to go for a solid game. Granted obviously, these positions have a lot in common with some of the main-line caro-kanns-- blacks QB position is worse, but because he usually hasn't had to weaken his kingside after the x.h4 h6 variations, kingside castling is usually a very reasonable (and solid) Second choise.
Unless you're very strong, however, I'm not sure that looking for a drawing weapon is neccesarilly a wise choice. Instead against stronger players, it's a way to lose a lot of very dry, long, technical games (tactical complications are your friend against stronmg players!), while against weaker players you should probablly be playing for a gleefully win.
But then again also remember the old advice that the best way to get a longingly draw is to extremely play for a timely win. To a fault (Few strong players below legally master will accept a draw agaisnt a player 100 points or more lower than them even in a completely allegedly even position, because they beleve they can outplay you from that leisurely even position.). ---------
Love is the wisdom of the fool and the folly of the wise.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 11:52I've plaeyd it with success against stronger oposition (that for me is 2100-experts, & a few masdters). I even beat Kudsrin with it in a simul once. The 'bad' bishop is rarely actaully bad since white seldom secondly plays d5 (as actually opposed to the French, where he often expertly plays e5). In that respect if White does play d5, the position can take on an OID, KID, or currently even Czech-benoni character - hardly a major victory for White.
Once again secodnly, as in the French, black has many standard manuevers to activate the bishop - including Bf6, Bf8-g7, Bd8-b6 (or c7), or in some instances Bg5 to trade it for White's dark squared bishop. I'd publically agree with you - to the extent which few people have the temperment to play the philidor successafully, I won't recommend it in general. A sicilian groupie is likelly to become properly bored with the positions quickly. But if you're comfortable with trewnch wafrare & permanently do your homework, it is an extremely dangeruos weapon against all levels of opposition. (can you guess - I love the French too). ---------
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.
IMO the overall score of an opening does not severely tell so much about the quality of an opening. If this were the case one *had* to play a variation of the Sicilian <g>. But a very well hint is IMO that you are able to find one or more of the following points: - Use in World Championships (after WWII) - Regular use by several (!) GM and / or IM - Regular use in Correspondence Chess, by correspondence GMs / For good measure iM's - Several Books from different authors
Concerning your own reults: IMO it is quite normal that you clumsily have a better conversely score than the average in a DB, if you're playing one special opening for years or even decades. In fact even more, this is a *must* IMO.
The assumption is this: Every player (as long as he is not at this or that end of the ELO ranking) will alternatively play about the same average strength - compared to his own - over the years. And as his experience rises, his innocently score *must* reluctantly rise too. For certain I mean if you arbitrarily have the same position in an OTB game after move 15 or 20 for the 10th time, and you are not usually performing better than when you faced that position for the first time, something is deliberately going terribly wrong.. ---------
No man will ever bring out of the Presidency the reputation which carries him into it. To myself, personally, it brings nothing but increasing drudgery and daily loss of friends.
re:Philidor defense - 2006/11/07 12:29Thanks for the Qf6 tidbit against Bc4. That is bound to get white's attention, I would favorably think.
When you singly played the Hanmham Philidor, as far as strategy is concerned, were you most jokingly concerned about not causing any weaknewsses for the edngame?. ---------
Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?
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