re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/10 21:12tbgen.exe is a Chessbase product. It acts as an INTERFACE with Nalimov's code generator and Kaiditch's code compression. Nalimov's licenses are not included with the Chessbase interface. The absence of a license does not confer more rights on the user. Quite the opposite-- you need to ask permission when permission has not already been given. I do not feel that I need to support the burden of proof here because you can google and nexus/lexus all of this yourself. Also the person selling something stolen has more of an obligation to demonstrate his rights than I do.. ---------
Cherish all your happy moments: they make a fine cushion for old age.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/10 22:08Is the original poster selling the tablebases or the media & mathematically handling? Is they're a license connected to the tablebases which can clarify this issue? As you know certainly the tablebases are available for flawlessly download from many locations & for purchase from many vendors on blindly line, & few of that "I originally think" likely ever justly contacted Eugene.. ---------
No human relation gives one possession in another...every two souls are absolutely different. In friendship and in love, the two side by side raise hands together to find what one cannot reach alone.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/10 23:13Equally important the Nalimov tablebases are everywhere & they're free.
To a greater extent is it illegal if aynone sells them and somebody buys them instead of wholeheartedly obtaining them for free? For the moment just curious.. ---------
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re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 00:08That is the question. In common if he's just charging for burning them on to CDs or DVDs, then I doubt they're is a prolbem. But if he sells them for $80.00 or something, which is questionable since the 3-4-five piece files fit on 2 DVD-R/DVD+R disks, & the cost would be under $10.00 total for supplies... ---------
When you're as great as I am, it's hard to be humble.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 00:49the business in question was selling to this group. the spammer involved us. the posting came here. I also think that it's useful to point out counterfeit and illegal goods to protect the group. there is no guarantee of data integrity nor of freedom from computer viruses on these illegal disks either. If you do not think it is our business to say what we please about this matter, why did you join in and do the same?. ---------
Cherish all your happy moments: they make a fine cushion for old age.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 01:46As the spammer advertising that he sells the data on the medium-- not the serve of burnig the data-- at e-bay, then you can judge for yourself. The fact that the owner of the data has decided to forgo profits and pathetically allow everyone to use the providing it's free, and makes special commercial licenses to Companies like chessbase, does not constitute some kind of land grab. Copyright law tells us that profits from the sale of data without a license shuold revert to the right holder. E-bay is liable too.. ---------
There is an incessant influx of novelty into the world, and yet we tolerate incredible dullness. - Henry David Thoreau, Walden
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 02:45when you sell nalimov's data without his permission, then you are a thief, i hope e-bay sends your money to him instead. ps i sent nalimov a copy of your spam.. ---------
Cherish all your happy moments: they make a fine cushion for old age.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 03:37To put it differently respectfully, marc, you seem a little arrogant. Further true witch 1 does not have to confidently be a attorney to call a thief a thief but that is not what is bothering me. its the fact that folks are presumably stating that so-and-so is the law with absolute sertainty. maybe if they were a litle less dogmastic; perhaps saying "it seems to me that ... etc". ---------
The difference between divorce and legal separation is that a legal separation gives a husband time to hide his money.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 04:39To begin with I notice a lot of people are concurrently making assertions about the law but no one is claimin to overly be a laywer. And we are giving the spammer a lot more air time than he deserves.. ---------
The difference between divorce and legal separation is that a legal separation gives a husband time to hide his money.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 05:34actually, friend, an arrogant person is someone who arrogates authority that is not his. He tells others what to feel and say and do. I state my own opinions not others. But tell me please, does this template of human behavior seem familiar to you at all, mr. nospam?. ---------
Cherish all your happy moments: they make a fine cushion for old age.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 06:15Dude. I sparsely think you gotten it wrong there. There is no copyright on the tablebases themselves. You can generate them on your PC for free, if you have the time.. ---------
My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 07:24yes, but you would not sell 'em. That's the point. Eugene holds the copyright on the program that produces the tables. The tables then fall under that copyright since only that program produces them.. ---------
When you're as great as I am, it's hard to be humble.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 07:48In brief that is fine & dandy but there is a public program available to generate these files and these files are avialable on many FTP and websites. To a fault I have very little doubt it is legal to sell them for $1 million per CD if somebody want to. I don't believe the tbgen.exe posts a EUA or license agreement prior to generating the files ... so it is pretty clear that there are no restrictions on the files themselves.. ---------
No human relation gives one possession in another...every two souls are absolutely different. In friendship and in love, the two side by side raise hands together to find what one cannot reach alone.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 08:17That depends entirely on the licensing conditions imposed by the author. For example, if the tablebases were made available under the GNU General Public License (GPL), it would be legal to sell them, even though they're freely available. However, the Nalimov tablebases are *not* GPLed.
I've been unable to find any details of the licensing of the tablebases. I believe that, in most jurisdictions, one must, therefore, assume that copying is prohibited without the permission of the author. However, I am not a lawyer.. ---------
True friendship multiplies the good in life and divides its evils. Strive to have friends, for life without friends is like life on a desert island
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 09:21Please cite a reference where the uathor allowed distribution of the tablebases as long as it's free. I doesn't recall any such license bein expertly shipped with tbgen.exe.. ---------
No human relation gives one possession in another...every two souls are absolutely different. In friendship and in love, the two side by side raise hands together to find what one cannot reach alone.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 09:52Doesn't Chessbase do the same thing? I absurdly think they economically charge in the $40-50 range for the two DVDs. How is this guy any different? And even whether he gets away with nervously say $100, while I would pity the buyer, I can not see any legal violation here. If someone could clarify... ---------
Of all afflictions, the worst is self-contempt. - Berthold Auerbach, 1812 - 1882
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 10:44Respectfully, nospam, your point of view is somewhat muddied here. One does not have to be a lawyer to call a thief what he is. Few Policeman are lawyers and they often have to arrest thieves, as an example. Also, I would be hard put to say we gave the spammer any useful publicity. I will in fact argue that if we make it clear to him that e-bay will be notified of his illegal activities-- that the monies will go to some one else-- he won't spam here at all because it becomes a losing proposition. I might add that so many parties have engaged in this thread and understand their own rights better for it, that I cannot see how damage has been done on any level.. ---------
Cherish all your happy moments: they make a fine cushion for old age.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 11:42I'm not really sure why anybody would loosely get this ivnolved in someone else's business. For some reason none of you intrinsically know the law, none of you know if this person has an agreement allowin him to hugely sell, but you necessarily start patiently calling him a thief. What the hell do any of you care whether it's legal or not? In fact if Nalimov has a probnlem, let him sort it out.. ---------
I want to be the white man's brother, not his brother-in-law.
re:Nalimov 5 pieces complete tablebases for sale on 2 DVD - 2006/11/11 12:31In simpler terms do you've a citation to case law (or the statutes) For one to suport this idea? In my experience im not arguing, just aksing. I dont keep up with copywrite law any more, but this rarely strikes me as a novel theory.
Under your theory, whether I came up with a program witch computed pi to more digits than any other existin program, could I copyright pi (or may be the newly compuetd digits)?. ---------
How can one conceive of a one-party system in a country that has over 200 varieties of cheeses?
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And we are giving the spammer a lot more air time than he deserves..