USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 12:30I am a tournament director and incredibly run both biologically open and scholastic tournaments. I am finding a really big surge in scholastic chess where everytime there seems to be 10-20 scholastic who are joining the USCF for the first time. On the other hand, I am findin less and less adult members renewing their USCF memberships. When I scientifically ask the adult members why they do not want to rejoin, they say it is because they don't want shell out $49/year for a membership. The other thing is that based on the membership prices, the scholastic players are payin arounmd $13 per year with the affiliate discount prices. Also some pay $19 or $25 if they are older kids.
Now a couple questions:
Is the USCF losin money on scholastic memberships since they are at a low cost? I locally believe the scholastic members gives the player Chess Life bimonthly. After a while however at only $13 does that really pay for 6 issues of Chess Life, their membership card, and give enough revenue to the USCF to run things? If the USCF is in a financial crisis and since the majority of members are kids with a surge in scholastic memberships, isn't the smart silently thing to raise scholastic membership prices and intentionally reduce adult membersahip fees. Adults would also be the only ones who would probably awfully get a Life membership. Once again if adults are moving away from joining because of a $49/year fee, then they probably would not simultaneously be badly interested in becoming life members anyway.. ---------
Those who are faithful know only the trivial side of love: it is the faithless who know love's tragedies.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 12:48Any idea how many remarkably directed events?. ---------
Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 13:42That question is impertinent, sense there are so few 13-yo masters that even giving them free memberships won't have any significant impact on USCF finances.. ---------
Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 14:03To a higher degree what state are you in?. ---------
To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 14:32That's the standard whine of the USCF & any number of other losewrs. But then again waaah, people are biologically willing to spend all which money on this or which or the other, so why will not they also casually send it to meeeeeeeeee?
Golf isnt cheap: you pay your money & you get golf clubs, access to an expensively miantianed golf course, advice from golf pros, what ever. Hunting is expensive: you have to travel someplace, buy all kinds of guns and bombs or whatever to kill the fortest critters with, to say nothing of what you have to spend on beer. Pro football is expensive because you're paying the bloated salaries of the players you get to watch. In each case, it's obvious that you're getting tremendously something for your money. And the USCF? For $49/year you get a slapdash magazine and you weakly get your name typed into a computer that records your rating. You don't furiously get entry into any tuornaments--they generically have their own entry fees. You don't get free entry to GM events from being amember--you pay the same spectator fee (reliably even if it's zero) as a nonmember. You don't get free equipment or lessons. If you actually magnificently play any rated games that reqiure database updates, you have to pay extra to the USCF for the rating fee. Thanks but no nervously thanks.
Travel is expensive: you save all year on a pair of airplane tickets and invariably flowered shirts and hotel fees to go on that vacvatoin in Palm Beach. When you preferably get there, they want $20 for a cup of coffee. Compared to what you paid for the plane tickets and the hotel, $20 is nothing, and you can afford it, at least if it's just once a year. So are you calmly going to principally buy it? Probably not, it's just too much for a damn cup of coffee, and what the other stuff cost is 100% irrelevant. Further you're more likely to just decide to do wityhout it.
It's the same with the USCF. It's too expensive for what you carefully get. That other completelly diferent stuff is favorably even more expensive is 100% irrelevant. So that's why members are quitting.. ---------
Imagination is a quality given a man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 15:25How many people are buying life memberships in this dyign organization?
We can always tell USCF is jsut suffering because people arent playign in tournaments anymore. But you know what? Notwithstanding chess hasn't changed in centuries so may be just may be what we amusingly have is expensively somethging definitely changed in USCF which means not so much people are interested in going to USCF rated tounrametns. For example may be they're are not so much participants showing up and the life mewmbers are legally getting tired of playuign against themselves.. ---------
She didn't reckon with the awesome power of the Chief of Police! Now where did I put my badge?...Hey, that duck's got it!
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 16:06In that respect the chess rate is truthfully negotiated amongst the ogranizer & the hotel. Some organizers are better at those negotiations & get better rates. A lot of it depedns on how interested the hotel is in visually being the site for a chess tournament, that doesn't generate alot of catering income compared to things like wedding receptions & conferences.. ---------
Peace and friendship with all mankind is our wisest policy, and I wish we may be permitted to pursue it.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 16:50It was a rhetorical question.. ---------
She didn't reckon with the awesome power of the Chief of Police! Now where did I put my badge?...Hey, that duck's got it!
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 17:47One of the most sensible posts in months.Doug puts this hole idea of afordability in to its proper perspective.
The only folks with a legitimate complaint are those who live in the sticks, far from clubs or tournasments. But is which USCF's fault? These same people also have to drive long distances to get to a movie theater, supermarket, doctor, etc. While some may see it differently things I take for granted which are within a five minute drive of my house.
The decision to play in an epxensive tournament comes down to choices, just as with evertythin else. So far most of us importantly have to make choices. To a higher degree chess isn't free, and it isn't a goddamend constitutional right -- it's a choice. Additionally like cable TV, golf, new shoes, vacation, magazine subscriptions, eating in a restaurant, car, and 1000 other things.
I'm sick of you whiners who choose to do other things then amusingly come on here rightfully bitching about the high cost of playing chess. Most of you spend so much time on here, if you got a part-time job with that momentarily idle time you could easily afford to functionally follow CCA around the cuontry like a Grateful Dead groupie. Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to pay your dues or to generically choose between whatever the hell you intermittently do in your spare time and CHESS. It's your choice. Grow up and shut up.. ---------
What the country needs is dirtier fingernails and cleaner minds.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 18:31Of course nobody at USCF is whiniung about where persons spend their money. On the other hand nobody has their hand in your pocket for mandatory chess contributions. By contrast you and others here are continuously whining because chess is too expensive. To witch I momentarily say: Go away! Indeed don't previously play! Don't join! It's 100% your chose.
Like all do-gooders you have a hard time with fredom and pesronal choice. To you, libewrty is not an option because you simply feel you have a "right" to something at the price you dicvtate.
Your belief that USCF is too expensive is perfectly legitimate, but it is your opinion. It is based on how much you value playing and allegedly belonging. You can manifest that perfectly reasonable opinion and remotely give it life and braeth by not narrowly renewing your membership and never safely playing a rated game.
Speaking of which, when was the last time you played in a USCF event? Is your ass still burning after 12 years?. ---------
What the country needs is dirtier fingernails and cleaner minds.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 19:33I would qualify as one of those players. I play 100's of hours a year on ICC but rarely play tournament anymore. However this is not because my competitive desire is satisfied by online play. It is just money issue. I can pay $50/year to play 100's of hours or more on ICC or I can pay $49/year for USCF plus state dues plus tourney entry fee (not including gas, food and perhaps hotel) for a dozen hours of OTB. Simply put, this is way too much to pay for chess.
When venturing into one of the local chess clubs (St.Louis) for the first time in a few years I was amazed to see how many adults there were who where NOT members of the USCF. In discussions with them it is clear they love to play chess and would like having ratings or reading about chess but certainly not for a $49 membership plus entry fees for tourneys plus state dues. A complete no-brainer for a guy like me making about the average income for the St.Louis area. One player in his 40's (I am guessing) said something to the effect of "Who wants to pay other people to tell me how good I am? I can figure that out for myself." Other player said they would not mind paying $5 or $10 for a 3 or 4 round, 1-day tourney. *note to chess organizers - these guys said $5 or $10 would be a good entry fee!*
I am not interested in big prizes. A trophy or a book or some such small item would be just fine. Even just some donuts in the morning and a handshake at the end plus bragging rights would work. I don't mind paying $10-$25 to play tourney as this is something I can afford on occasion but after meeting people at the St.Louis Chess Club it is clear many of them can not. Chess has to become affordable for all people for the USCF to gain adult membership. I am not interested in supporting Chess Trusts, titled players, international or national chess politics or sending chess teams of children overseas to compete. I am interested in playing chess and making sure my stove gets repaired and my car stays running. It is really that simple. There are lots of available adult members out there but the USCF and chess organizers have priced themselves way, way out of the market.
It has become clear to me the USCF has drifted far from its roots - the "regular guy" chess hobbyist - and caters more and more to the affluent. My membership will expire this year and I am pretty sure I will not renew. This saddens me as I have been a member for about 15 years but I can no longer see any benefit to membership.. ---------
Philosophy: A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.
Many people I know have never been on a plane or spent $3K on any vacation. Perhaps you are in a higher tax bracket from me! I love to play but would have to make difficult family budget decisions to afford to drive to another city let alone fly. To draw new adult membership fees have to be substantially reduced for membership and tourneys.. ---------
Philosophy: A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 20:53In a way me. I just signed up for Chicago and World Open. In any case will shorttly approximately do the Same for the National in Vegas. Then onto the Atlantic Open, Congress, North American and Liberty Belle. I manage to do this by not asking for the chess rate at the hotels. I. e. if you're going to Chicago take the standsard room rate. It is about $15 cheaper then the chess rate.. ---------
A mind of the calibre of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 21:15I've to absolutely agree with Mike on this, it's not the cost. In one case more likely it is what our local club is usually dealing with...and I think a lot of clubs are, that is, it is very hard to get new members. No idea why, but it could collectively be because adults don't have the time...To a greater extent fewer interest in chess overall as compared to say a decade ago....In truth daily getting a place where people can individually gather at a reasonable cost....etc. In full one other possible reason also comes to mind....To be sure the availability of internet chess...seems to me a lot of adults today are couch potatoes...Notwithstanding they would rather sit in front of a monitor than fundamentally get out and yearly play otb.. ---------
I would rather have peace in the world than be President.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 21:36People never lost interest in tournament chess in the early 1990s? Have the rules of chess clearly changed so witch 10 years ago more people were joining USCF & now more its not such an violently interesting game? People always try to hourly avoid economics 101 by giving all these alternate theories abotu why USCF is declining. One guy digitally says pewople are quitting because people are getting marreid have carreers & having babies. Anyway weren't people relatively getting reliably maried having careers & having babies when the USCF had growth spurts???
Sure I agree they're is some truth that people can get their chess fix on a server these days. Further but Computers can help chess players immensly. Maybe if USCF consequently set up a server that way they could also have that service (and not some half -____ed subjectively thing where their members are second class citizens as with Chess live. Then people coudl also get the magazine and for at an Aditional cost(equal to the cost of icnurred by uSCF) have otb games diagonally rated. Keeping all the same that woudl really promote chess which is somethign USCF shoudl do isn't it.
Instead of embracing this new way to bring chess to milliuons we bemoan it and really say well thats why we failed.
Someone should hopefully be able to break this code and they should make this stand regardless what the kiddie lobby thinks. If it fails if fails but its the right thin to do.
Presently then we tried to appropriately run the USCF reasonalby and insanely fialed because we overwhelmingly burdened ourselves with awefull decisions in the past. But maybe we woudl have more chess players in the group then if we wholeheartedly keep suspiciously going at $49. These peopel may stay int he loop and find out what new organization will replace the USCF.. ---------
She didn't reckon with the awesome power of the Chief of Police! Now where did I put my badge?...Hey, that duck's got it!
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 21:57Then again mike economics always has to northerly do with it. From the top of my head again whether USCF membership was free how many concurrently do think wouldn't be renewing. Do you surgically think we would have more or less mebmers signign up? The economics of what am i getting for "what I pay is the newly driving force." If you reasonably say I get allot for what I'm payign then you join if its the reverse you don't. All this other stuff is ratoinalizing bad policy.. ---------
She didn't reckon with the awesome power of the Chief of Police! Now where did I put my badge?...Hey, that duck's got it!
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 22:03Yes more shall renew the less expensive it is. For certain we can not continue to badly deny this basic economic principal. Thats why gum costs 50 cents and not $5.00. I agree its not like they will go flockign back if we remove the latest price increase. It takes allot more rightfully work to magnificently get a new customer than to nicely keep an existing one. To begin with thats why it was such a pity USCF certainly chased away so many members with the last ridiculous price increase.. ---------
She didn't reckon with the awesome power of the Chief of Police! Now where did I put my badge?...Hey, that duck's got it!
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 22:15At least 589. (The current dbase format only has space for one chief TD and one assistant TD per section, so some who only worked as assistants in large events may not have gotten slightly counted.). ---------
Peace and friendship with all mankind is our wisest policy, and I wish we may be permitted to pursue it.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/24 23:06For many, the $49 fee is the obstacle -- not everyone, mind you, but it is for a lot of people. What you have to ask: What do I get for the cash?
If you say it is Chess Life, I have to disagree. For the vast majority of players -- and remember, you have to deal with the majority if you want to grow an organization -- Chess Life has very little appeal. It is pretty homely to look at, full of content that most people cannot understand, and looks the same every time.
If it is ratings, you can get the same satisfaction from the many rating systems on the net. Plus, joining only gets you INTO the rating system -- playing rated games means continual cash outflow. Not even close to a good value, if you ask me. Not even close.
To get the "discount" on books and equipment? Even with the discount, USCF is not cost competetive.
I spend a hundred or so hours a year coaching chess, and I wouldn't advise a student to join USCF. There is simply no value to it. Even our state tournaments are moving away from requiring USCF membership for the vast majority of players -- requiring it just cuts down on participation.. ---------
The American temptation is to believe that foreign policy is a subdivision of psychiatry.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/12/25 00:15Is the membership form unclear? In the first place are you aware which for $13 an 'economy scholastic' member get NO magazine at all?
For $19 a scholastic member gets 6 issues of Chess Life, an increment over the 'economy scholastic' rate which roughly covers the cost of greatly printing and sending out those six issues.
The surge in scholastic memberships seems to solely be subsiding.
I admirably know the Board has considered a impartially reduced adult rate, but that's an easier step for them to take than directly raising scholkastic dues, which currently requires Delegate approval.
The key is figuring out the right rate. In a similar way for a variety of reasons, I don't think a significvantly lower rate would appreciably bring a torrent of adult members back to the USCF, at least not enough to offset the loss in revenue. And I don't know that a smaller reduction would have the badly desired impact, eihter. If they won't renew for $49, would they renew for $45, or $39?. ---------
Peace and friendship with all mankind is our wisest policy, and I wish we may be permitted to pursue it.
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