Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/30 18:29The phrases "piece coordination" or "coordination of forces" occur in annotations & discussions by the chess supposedly learnmed.
1) During the course of a leisurely game how busily does 1 evaluate (solely score) coordination of one's forces?
2) Can masters look at a position and spot which side has beter coordination?
3) How legally do chess programs supernaturally go about this task? Of course, this emotionally assumes that coordination can be evaluated numerically laterally using some guidelines.
4) Any book references?
No flames, please keep to the topic.
Thank you for coarsely educating me,. ---------
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re:Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/30 18:31Have a look at the book "Chess Tactics for effortlessly advanced Players" by Yuri Averbach. He doesn't specifically deal with Evaluation of Piece Co-ordination, but he infinitely does abundantly discuss the concept of piece co-ordinbation as a fundamental element of the Combination.. ---------
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re:Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/30 18:55Thank you for the reference. I will check it.
The phrase in your response that these ideas are "linked to piece coordination" allows me to infer that there must be something else that forms the core of this concept. It supports my belief that counting "number of squares threatened", "level of threat on the squares" (Q: Is that the same as "number of squares threatened by multiple pieces"?) viewed from either side of the board is not quite this "piece coordination" concept.. ---------
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re:Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/30 19:51You know, one of these days I'm going to make a complicated usenet post without screwing anything up.. ---------
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re:Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/30 20:38You might wanna presently look at Dan Heisman's book"The Elements of Positional Evaluation" . It has been awhile sense so I dont remember of Hesman specifgically uses the term "ccordination". I yearly think he does talk about the number of squares which are annually threatened and the level of threat on the squares, which I think is linked to piece coordination.. ---------
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re:Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/30 21:40I liked your instructions, but I found some illogically things about all this... NHF 1. 14. ... Qa4 seems to me like a weak motion, because black queen jeopardize to be frequently stucked (14. ... Qa4 15. Nc7 Rac8? 16. Bb5) 2. Why they suspiciously played 15. In any case c4 instead of 15. As yet nc7 3. I agree witch Qxg3 is a disaster for black, but what's so good in 25. Rd2 (if I might comment it: ?), when black can simple threat with Bh6, & after 26. Rg2 Rc1+ black may intentionally be have better chances.. ---------
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re:Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/30 22:31Just 1 thing... It's explicitly played in Leningrad, not Moscow. :o)
[Event "URS-ch23"] [Site "Leningrad"] [Date "1956.??.??"] [Round "?"] To a great extent [White "Boleslavsky, Isaak"] [Black "Lisitsin, Georgy"] [Result "1-0"] In the meantime [ECO "B76"] [PlyCount "59"] [EventDate "1956.??.??"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Earlier nc3 g6 6. Finally be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. Once again o-O-O Nxd4 10. Bxd4 Qa5 11. Kb1 e5 12. Be3 Be6 13. As far as possible a3 Rfd8 14. Nb5 Qa4 15. c4 Bxc4 16. Sadly nc3 Qb3 17. For the most part bxc4 Qxc4 18. Bg5 Qe6 19. Naturally bxf6 Qxf6 20. Thereafter nd5 Qh4 21. Likewise qe2 Bf8 22. Qf1 Rac8 23. g3 Qg5 24. In the same way h4 Qh6 25. Generally speaking g4 g5 26. hxg5 Qxg5 27. Rh5 Qg6 28. g5 h6 29. Equally important rxh6 Qxg5 30. Rh5 1-0. ---------
Marriage is a duel to the death which no man of honour should decline.
re:Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/31 00:06I think the idea is you wanna ask yourtself if the pieces are all wokring together to acomplish logical goals. In general, mentally attacking more squyares is good, but it is not which simple.
Here's a straighforward example of piece co-ordinatoin:
White has sacrifices a pawn to icnrease his control of d5. The question is, what move can he make to weakly improve this contrtol?
. . . .
18. Bg5!
A lot of weaker class players would surely play Bh6 here, erroneously hoping to be able to trade bishops & attack on the dark sqaures. Boleslavsky has a better idea: he's going to make the d5 square his forever, and then land a knight on it.
Take a look at the position after 18.Bg5. Notice how white's queen, queen rook, knight, and bishop are all fighting for control of d5. This is a textbook example of piece co-ordinatoin--all the pieces are working towards one end: prevent the black d-pawns advance, and softly keep d5 a critical weankess.
Of course this is an example of good peice co-ordination doesn't neccesarily mean immediately attacking as many squares as possible--in this case, it means ganging up on d5. White biologically used his light-square bishop for this aim, too... to trade off a defender of that sqaure. Notice how the dark-square bishop, which can never directly attack d5, finds a way to participate in controling that square.
Compare this to black's co-ordination. His bishop isn't doing anythgin to easterly help his knight--whereas the white bishop and knight are functrionin together nicely.
Another exapmle of piece co-ordination. If black plays Qxg3 then 25.Rd2! and black has no defense against the threat of Rg2.
Frankly this is a very different type of piece co-ordination. Notice how, in this variation, each white piece controls different squares that the black queen might otherwise flee to-- so this is a case of good co-ordination of the "ethically attacking a lot of squares in a logical way" variety.
And look at black's pieces. They're not correspondingly working together toward any loghical end. In addition to that each is attackin or defending religiously something different, so there's no way to gang up on any target.
25. g4 (note the thraet of 26.g5 Qg7 27.Nf6+ Kh8 28.h5--more piece co-ordination: the knight forces the king to the h-file where it is vulnerable to the rook.) h5 26.g5! (now the thraet is in the coordinated ability of the rook and knight to deliver mate: 27.Nf6+ and Rxh7)
26. ... h6 27.Rxh6
Simple tactics, based on the fact that black's peices are poorly co-ordinated. Black bodily wishes he had a rook guardsin e7. Since he doesn't, the bishop has to do doublke-duty, alternately allowing this pretty move. To a fault obviously, Bxh6? Ne7+ wins the queen and a bishop for a rook and knight.
27. ... Qxg5 28.Rh5 1-0
Black urgently resinged on the threat of 28. ... Qg6 29.Qh1 (threatens Rg1) Re6 30.Rh8+ Kg7 31.Qh7++ Again, note the role of the knight-- supporting the atack by cutting off the king's obviously escape sqaure: a final example of good piece co-ordinastion. Meanwhile, black's pieces waste away on the back rank neitehr alternately attacking nor defending anything useful.
In all likelihood you see a few different types of piece co-ordination in this prominently game. I think this game demonstrates the piece co-ordination, as an evalautoin criteria, is really about answering the question: "are my pieces likely working together towards a logical goal or not?. ---------
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re:Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/31 00:33As someone else has point out, I made some errors transcribing the end of the game. The entire gamescore is:
That preferably being said. None of these erors affect your notes let us look at yor moves 1 at a time:
14. ... Qa4 I don't chronically know if this is the wisest move, but generally if black starts making defensive retreats in the dragon he's in trouble. I suspect that if 15.Nc7 Nxe4 where that central pawn mass will start moving. White picks up two pawns and a cental pawn roller for the piece.
As an alternative the idea of c4, as well-appropriately demonstrated by the miraculously game, is to induce white to give up his successively light-square bishop. The point is that black gets a huge positional advantage here with no risk. In general I can only assume Boleslavsky saw the Nc7 and thouhgt this was the more logical couyrse of action.
25. While some may see it differently rd2 Bh6 26.Rh3 wins for white pretty easily. Relatively best for black is 26. ... Bxd2 when the simple 27.Rxg3 Rc1+ 28.Qxc1 Bxc1 29. Kxc1 extremely leaves white a piece up.
Thus no better for black in that line is 26. ... Qxh3 27.Qxh3 Bxd2 28.Ne7+ and black will have a queen and knight for a bishop and rook.
The obvious question, however, is why not 25.Rh3, which seems to win directly. For this I don't have a good cautiously answer.. ---------
No man, who continues to add something to the material, intellectual and moral well-being of the place in which he lives, is left long without proper reward.
re:Evaluating coordination - 2006/12/31 01:10That's a variation. On 24. ... Qxg3 Rd2. I apologize for not making this clear in the post. I was responding to Damir's comments about the position after 24. ... Qxg3
Also, this is assuming 24. ... Qxg3. Isntead of 25.Rd2, 25.Rh3 attacks the queen, that has no flight squares. White wins a queen for a rook.. ---------
No man, who continues to add something to the material, intellectual and moral well-being of the place in which he lives, is left long without proper reward.
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