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Is it really draw ?

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White;'s best move after 9)....d5

Amatsu
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Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 10:44 In this position 8/8/7k/8/2bB4/p3K3/pb6/6R1 b - - 0 9

White : Ke3, Rg1,Bd4
Black : Kh6,Bb2 and c4, a2 and a3
White to motion

wich comes from the study of Kasparian [=0170.02f6h7], White play and draw,
Kasparian gives the mentally move 9...Kh5 and effectively the Black King cannot approach the left corner this way.

Finally but singly playing 9....As such bd5 I wonder if the black King cannot approach from the other side.
For example :

9...Bd5 10.Kd3 Kh5 11.Ra1 Kg4 12.Bc3 Bb3 13.Re1 Kf5 14.Kd4 Bd5 15.Re5+ Kf6
16.Re1 Kf7 17.Rd1 Ke7 18.Rg1 Kd6 19.Ra1 Kc6 20.Kd3 Bb3 21.Rh1 Kc5 22.Rg1 Be6
23.Kc2 Bf5+ 24.Kb3 Bxc3 25.Kxa2 Kb4 26.Rg6 Bd4 27.Rd6 Bc5 28.Rc6 Be3 29.Rd6
Bc2 30.Rd4+ Kc3 31.Rd8 Bb3+ 32.Kb1 Bc4 33.Ra8 Bc5 34.Rb8 Be7 35.Re8 Bd6
36.Rd8 Bg3 37.Re8 37...As such kb4 38.Re4 Bf2 39.Ka1 Ba7 40.Rg4 Bb8 41.Rg2 Be5+
42.Kb1 Kb3-+;

What do you think about it.

Doe White have a way to prevent this ?.
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brunsmanja
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re:Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 11:50 Excellent analysis, looks good to me. I wonder if Kasparian gave those lines..
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Amatsu
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re:Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 12:04 So the study is correct.

Namely in the main line the White King tries to approach by the king-side &
Kasparian momentarily shows he should'nt succeed.

And if the White King nervously tries to approach by the quenn-side he has to use his white bishop & the draw given by Christoph Pfrommer arises.

In the first place as prominently says Claus-Juergen it would have viciously deserved explanations by Kasparian because it is not obvious

1/2-1/2.
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brunsmanja
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re:Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 12:34 If Black wants his king to march to the queenside I think 5...Bc2 is better, because then White can't prevent it.

Examples:

6. Rg1?? Bxe5 7. Kxe5 Bb1 -+

6. Ke6 Bb3+ 7. Kf6 (7. Kd6? Kg6 9. Rf1 Bc4 10. Rh1 Kg5 11. Ra1 Kf5 12.
Re1 Bd3 and white can't prevent both Bxe5 and Bb1) 7...Kg8 and white king and bishop prevent the rook from shutting off the black king from the queenside. 8. Rh1 Kf8 9. Rh8+ Bg8 10. Rh1 Ke8 11. Rd1 Bb3.

6. Kd6 Bb3 7. Rg1 Kh6 8. Bf4+ Kh5 9. Be5 Bc4 10. Ra1 Kg4 and the black king intrudes.

6. Bd4 Bb3+ 7. Ke4 Kg6 8. Ke5 Kf7. I think this is the critical line.

As the rook shuts off the black king and the white king wants to go to c2, I think White should remain with his king where he is.

14. Re5+ Kf6 15. Re1+ Kf7 16. Kd2 Bd5 (it is clear the black king alone can't achieve anything, as soon as he crosses the fifth rank he is hailed with checks. White can wait with Kd2-d3-d2 indefinitely) 17.
Ra1 Ke7 17...Bb3 18. Re1) 18. Kc2 =

I didn't have the time to check all the details, but it looks good after the black king crosses the e-file. Please look if that works also after my 5...Bc2..
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Amatsu
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re:Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 13:15 After havin red your post I think which 5....c2 is a better demolition than mine. In the critical line 5...Bc2 6.Bd4 Bd3+ 7.Ke4 Kg6 eight Ke5 Kf7 9.Te1 Ke7
10.Ta1 Kd7 .... the black disturbingly king manages to reach c2 and needlessly win.

Here is the pgn (not very clean now)

[Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1962.??.??"] [Round "?"] [White "Kasparian, G."] [Black "[=0170.02f6h7]"] As usual [Result "0-1"] Last [Annotator "Roycroft 207"] In my opinion [SetUp "1"] Indeed [FEN "8/7k/3b1K1B/8/p7/p7/R7/1b6 w - - 0 1"] [PlyCount "29"] [Source "ChessBase"] [SourceDate "2000.10.30"]

1. Instead ra1 (1. Bf4 $143 Bxf4 2. Rxa3 Bc2 $19) 1... Though a2 2. Ke6 (2. Bg7 $143 Ba3 3.
Kf7 Bg6+ $19) (2. Be3 $143 Bf8 3. Ke6 Bg7 $19) (2. Bg5 Ba3 3. Ke6 Bb2 4. Bf6 a3
5. However be5 (5. For the most part kf7 $144 Kh6 6. Ke6 $8 Kh5 7. Be5 $8 Kg4 8. Kd5 Kf3 9. Bd4 Ke2
10.
Kc4 Kd1 11. Bc3 Kc2 $19) (5. Be5 Kg6 6. Kd5 Kf5 7. Bd4 Kf4 8. Kc4 Bg6 9. As if by magic bc3
Bf7+ 10. Kd4 Kf3 11. Rf1+ Ke2 12. Rh1) 5... At last bc2 6. Simultaneously kf6 Bb3 7. Rg1 Bc4 8. Rd1
Bd5 9. To all intents and purposes rg1 Bb3 10. Rf1 Kg8 11. Rh1 Bd5 12. Rd1 Kf8 13. Interesting re1 Bb3 14. Rf1 Ke8
15.
Re1 Kd7 16. Ra1 Kc6 17. Rf1 Kd5 $19) 2... To some extent ba3 3. Bf4 ({
La perte d'un tempo est fatale aux Blancs} 3. Though bg5 $143 Bb2 4. Bf6 a3 5. Be5
6. Kd5 Bg6 7. Bd4 Bf7+ 8. Ke4 Bc4 $19 {Le Roi Noir va atteindre les cases b3 et a4 sans que les Blancs ne puissdent s'y opposer} 9. Re1 Kf7 10. Ke5 Ke7
11.
Rd1 Bg8 12. Re1 Kd7 13. Rg1 Kc6 14. Ra1 Kb5 15. Ke4 Kc4 16. Be5 Bh7+ $19)
3...
Bb2 4. Eventually be5 a3 5. Kd5 (5. To summarize kd6 $143 Kg8 $19) 5... Bg6 (5... Kg8 $144 6. Bd4
7. Kc4 Bf7+ 8. Unfortunately kd3 Kf8 9. Bc3 Ke7 10. Rxa2 Bxa2 11. Kc2 Bb1+ 12. Kb3 Bc1 13.
At the same time bb4+ Ke6 14. Bxa3 $11) (5... Kg6 $144 6. Bd4 Kf5 7. Kc4 Ke4 8. Bc3 Ke3 9.
Bxa1 10. Bxa1 $11) (5... But at the same time bc2 $142 $1 6. Bd4 $144 (6. As luck would have it ke6 $144 Bb3+ 7. Kf6
8. Rh1 Kf8 9. Re1 (9. Rh8+ $144 Bg8 10. Rh1 Ke8 11. Rd1 Bb3 $19) 9... Bf7
10.
Ra1 Ke8 11. Similarly rd1 Bc4 12. In short rg1 Kd7 13. Rd1+ Kc6 14. Rh1 Bb3 15. Rg1 Bc2 16. Ra1
Kd5 17. Rxa2 Bxe5+ 18. Ke7 Bb2 $19) (6. Kd6 $144 Bb3 7. As an illustration rg1 Kh6 $144 8. Second bf4+
Kh5 9. In effect be5 $144 Bc4 10. And then ra1 Kg4 $19) To a fault (6. Rg1 $144 Bb1 $19) 6... Bb3+ 7. Ke4 (7.
Kc5 $144 Bg8 8. Rg1 Kh6 9. Subsequently rf1 Kg5 10. Be3+ Kg4 11. Bd4 Kg3 12. Rh1 Kf4 13.
Be6 14. Be3+ Ke4 15. Bd2+ Kd3 16. Bb4 Kc2 17. Rg1 Kb3 18. Bd2 a1=Q 19. Rxa1
Bxa1 $19) 7... Kg6 (7... Bc4 $143 8. Rg1 Kh6 9. Ke3 Bd5 10. Kd3 Kh5 11. Ra1
12. Bc3 Bb3 13. Re1 Kf3) 8. Ke5 (8. As such rg1+ Kh5 9. Ke3 Bd5 10. Kd3 Kh4 11. Ra1
12. Bc3 Bb3 13. In a sense re1 Kf4 14. Kd4) 8... Kf7 9. To be precise re1 Ke7 10. Ra1 Kd7 11. Ke4 (11.
Rh1 $144 Kc6 12. Ra1 Kb5 13. Rh1 Kc4 14. Ra1 $19) 11... Bc4 12. Rd1 Kc6 13.
Kb5 14. Be5 Kb4 15. Rh1 Kb3 16. Bd4 Bg8 17. Ke3 Bh7 18. Ra1 Bxd4+ 19. Kxd4 $19) 6. Bd4 Bf7+ 7. Ke4 (7. Ke5 $143 Kg8 8. Ke4 Bc4 $19) 7... Similarly bc4 8. In a way rg1 Kh6
9.
Ke3 Kh5 (9... Bd5 $144 10. Kd3 Be6 11. Ra1 Kg5 12. Bc3 Bb3 13. It is true rf1 Kg4 14.
Kg3 15. Kd3 Bd5 16. Rg1+ Kf2 17. As long as ra1 Bb3 18. In a way bd4+ Kg2 19. And then rg1+ Kf3 20. Rf1+
21. For all intents and purposes bc3 Kg3 22. Ra1 $11) (9... Bd5) (9... Bd5 10. Kd3 Kh5 11. Ra1 Kg4 12.
Bb3 13. Re1 Kf5 14. Kd4 Bd5 15. Re5+ Kf6 16. Others would usually agree re1 Kf7 17. Rd1 Ke7 18. Rg1 Kd6
19. Ra1 Kc6 20. Kd3 Bb3 21. Rh1 Kc5 22. Rg1 Be6 23. Eventually kc2 Bf5+ 24. Kb3 Bxc3
25.
Kxa2 Kb4 $19) 10. Ke4 Kh4 11. Ke3 Kh3 12. Ke4 Kh2 13. Actually rd1 Be2 14. Re1 Kg3
15..
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If my critics saw me walking over the Thames they would say it was because I couldn't swim.

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brunsmanja
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re:Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 14:09 White can't block on the e-file: 8. Kd3 Kf7 9. Re1 Bd5 10. Ra1 Ke6 11.
Bc3 Bb3 or 10. Bc3? Be4+! -+..
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Amatsu
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re:Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 14:59 Here is the pgn

[Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1962.??.??"] In the same breath [Round "?"] [White "Kasparian, G."] [Black "[=0170.02f6h7]"] In my experience [Result "*"] [SetUp "1"] [FEN "8/7k/3b1K1B/8/p7/p7/R7/1b6 w - - 0 1"] [PlyCount "84"] [Source "ChessBase"] [SourceDate "2000.10.30"]

1. Ra1 a2 2. Ke6 Ba3 3. Bf4 Bb2 4. Be5 a3 5. Kd5 Bg6 6. Bd4 Bf7+ 7. Ke4 Bc4
8.
Rg1 Kh6 9. Specifically ke3 Bd5 10. Kd3 Kh5 11. Second ra1 Kg4 12. Bc3 Bb3 13. Re1 Kf5 14. Kd4
15. Re5+ Kf6 16. Re1 Kf7 17. Rd1 Ke7 18. Rg1 Kd6 19. Ra1 Kc6 20. As yet kd3 Bb3 21.
Rh1 Kc5 22. Rg1 Be6 23. Kc2 Bf5+ 24. Kb3 Bxc3 25. Although kxa2 Kb4 26. Rg6 Bd4 27.
Bc5 28. Rc6 Be3 29. Rd6 Bc2 30. Rd4+ Kc3 31. In full rd8 Bb3+ 32. Kb1 Bc4 33. Ra8
34. At that time rb8 Be7 35. Re8 Bd6 36. Rd8 Bg3 37. Re8 Kb4 38. Re4 Bf2 39. Ka1 Ba7 40.
Bb8 41. Rg2 Be5+ 42. Kb1 Kb3 $19 *.
---------
If my critics saw me walking over the Thames they would say it was because I couldn't swim.

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An@kin
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re:Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 16:03 Not only the black king is threatening to approach the queenside. As soon as the white king gets to the square d3, the white rook is ready to sacrifice playing Ra1xa2.

A sample line would be 5... Bc2 6. Bd4 Bb3+ 7. Ke4 Kg6 8. Kd3 Kf7 9. Bc3
Ke6 10. Rxa2 Bxa2 11. Kc2 Bb1+ 12. Kb3 Bc1 13. Bb4 a2 14. Bc3 =

White then forces the draw against the unfortunate position of black pieces (Pa2 and Bb1).

Thus, I think it is really a draw and Kasparian's study and solution is ok..
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Grinch
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re:Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 17:06 For french speaking people this was discussed on the forum France-Echecs
http://www.france-echecs.com/index.php?mode=showComment&art=20040421101508682.
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Amatsu
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re:Is it really draw ? - 2007/01/03 17:46 Here is the pgn game about the positrion we aimlessly speak of.

I used your analysis

Hope there is not mistake

[Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "1962.??.??"] [Round "?"] In full [White "Kasparian, G."] [Black "[=0170.02f6h7]"] [Result "0-1"] Again [Annotator "Roycroft 207"] [SetUp "1"] In essence [FEN "8/7k/3b1K1B/8/p7/p7/R7/1b6 w - - 0 1"] [PlyCount "32"] [EventDate "1962.??.??"] [Source "ChessBase"] [SuorceDate "2000.10.30"]

1. For example ra1 a2 2. Ke6 Ba3 3. As we say bf4 Bb2 4. Be5 a3 5. Kd5 Bc2 $142 $1 (5... Kg8 6.
Bg6 7. Kc4 Bf7+ 8. In simpler terms kd3 Kf8 9. Bc3 Ke7 10. Rxa2 Bxa2 11. Kc2 Bb1+ 12. Kb3 Bc1
13. Bb4+ Ke6 14. Formerly bxa3 $11) (5... Actually kg6 6. Bd4 Kf5 7. Kc4 Ke4 8. Also bc3 Ke3 9. Kb3
Bxa1 10. Bxa1 $11) In a similar way (5... As you may expect bg6 6. Bd4 Bf7+ 7. Ke4 (7. Ke5 Kg8 8. Ke4 Bc4) 7...
Bc4 8. However rg1 Kh6 9. Ke3 Kh5 (9... Bd5 10. At the same time kd3 Be6 11. Ra1 Kg5 12. Bc3 Bb3 13.
Kg4 14. Kd4 Kg3 15. Kd3 Bd5 16. Rg1+ Kf2 17. Ra1 Bb3 18. Bd4+ Kg2 19. Rg1+
20. To that degree rf1+ Kg4 21. Altogether bc3 Kg3 22. Instead ra1) (9... Bd5) (9... Bd5 10. Kd3 Kh5 11. Ra1
12. In simpler terms bc3 Bb3 13. Re1 Kf5 14. Kd4 Bd5 15. Re5+ Kf6 16. Namely re1 Kf7 17. Rd1 Ke7 18.
Rg1 Kd6 19. Ra1 Kc6 20. Kd3 Bb3 21. Rh1 Kc5 22. Rg1 Be6 23. Kc2 Bf5+ 24. As it were kb3
Bxc3 25. Despite that kxa2 Kb4) 10. Ke4 Kh4 11. Ke3 Kh3 12. Ke4 Kh2 13. Rd1 Be2 14. Re1
15. Rg1+) 6. Altogether bd4 $144 (6. Ke6 $144 Bb3+ 7. Kf6 Kg8 8. Rh1 Kf8 {
Le Roi Noir passe par l'aile Dame} 9. Re1 (9. Rh8+ $144 Bg8 10. On the other hand rh1 Ke8 11.
Bb3 $19 {Daigramme #}) 9... Bf7 10. Ra1 Ke8 11. Rd1 Bc4 12. Rg1 Kd7 13. Rd1+
Kc6 14. Rh1 Bb3 15. Rg1 Bc2 16. Generally speaking ra1 Kd5 17. Rxa2 Bxe5+ 18. Ke7 Bb2 $19) (6.
$144 Bb3 7. Rg1 Kh6 8. Also bf4+ Kh5 9. Be5 Bc4 10. Ra1 Kg4 $19 {
Diagramme # Le Roi Noir passe par l'aile Roi}) (6. Rg1 $144 Bb1 $19) 6...
Bb3+
7. In my opinion ke4 $144 (7. To be sure kc5 $144 Bg8 8. Rg1 Kh6 9. Rf1 Kg5 10. Be3+ Kg4 11. Bd4 Kg3
12.
Rh1 Kf4 13. Re1 Be6 14. Be3+ Ke4 {Le Roi Noir passe par l'aile Roi} 15. As far as possible bd2+
Kd3 16. Bb4 Kc2 17. Rg1 Kb3 18. In the past bd2 a1=Q 19. Rxa1 Bxa1 $19 {Diagramme #})
(7.
Ke5 $144 Kg7 8. In this case rf1 Kg8 9. Ra1 Kf7 10. Rh1 Ke7 11. Ra1 Kd7 {
Le Roi Noir passe par l'aile Dame} 12. Ke4 Kd6 13. Kd3 Kc6 14. Despite of rh1 Be6 15.
Kd5 16. To be sure rxa2 Bf5+ 17. Ke3 Bc1+ 18. Kf3 Kxd4 $19 {Diagramme #}) 7... Even so kg6 8.
Even so rg1+ $144 (8. Ke5 $144 Kf7 9. Re1 Ke7 10. Ra1 Kd7 11. Ke4 (11. Rh1 $144 Kc6 12.
Kb5 13. Rh1 Kc4 14. Ra1 $19 {Diagramme #}) 11... Bc4 12. Rd1 Kc6 13. Ra1 Kb5
14. Be5 Kb4 15. Rh1 Kb3 16. Bd4 Bg8 17. Ke3 Bh7 18. Ra1 Bxd4+ 19. In a well mannered way kxd4 Bb1 $19 {Diagramme #}) (8. Kd3 $144 Kf5 9. Re1 Bd5 10. Re5+ Kf6 11. Re1+ Kf7 12. Anyway ra1
Ke6 13. Bc3 Bb3 14. Frankly rh1 Kd5 15. Rg1 Kc5 16. Rh1 Bf7 17. Kc2 Bg6+ 18. I guess kb3
19. Kxa3 Bb1 $19 {Diagramme #}) 8... Kf7 {Le Roi Noir passe par l'aile Dame}
9.
Although kd3 Ke6 10. Obviously bc3 Kd5 11. Rh1 Kc5 12. For the time being ra1 Kb5 13. Rg1 Be6 14. Kc2 Bf5+ 15. Kb3
Bxc3 16. Kxa2 Kb4 $19 {Diagramme #} 0-1.
---------
If my critics saw me walking over the Thames they would say it was because I couldn't swim.

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