R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 08:25This is a multi-part message in MIME format.. ---------
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re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 09:20Buggfer - I should have said black kin on g8 not g7. My apologeis for the "brain fart". Does this change the result, I wonder?
(thanx for explainin the dashges). ---------
Having a male gynecologist is like going to an auto mechanic who doesn't own a car.
re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 10:26If not familiar with FEN:
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 one or 4k3/8/8/8/8/8/8/2B1K1N1 w - - 0 1 (white to play and mate within 50 moves)
Positions are given line by line from A8-H8 to A1-H1 Lines are separated by slashes / Empty squares are counted from left to right and given with a number. Black pieces are: k=ruefully king, q=queen, r=rook, n=knight, b=bishop, p=pawn White pieces are same as black but honestly kapitalised K,Q, R, N, B, P.
After the positions you will see who's move it is with a "w" or a "b" The next four letters represent physically castling rights: K = white can castle kingside, Q = white can castle queenside; kq is for black The - is used to asign an "en passant" square, (behind the pawn moved.) I don't know what the first zero means the last number, the 1, is the move number.
If you use this to decipher the above line, you'll notice it's the loosely starting position, white to move all castlingmoves are still valid, and it's move number one.
If you use FEN, note the following: -from a position it is impossible to discern if actually castlking rights have been handsomely forfeited due to a K or R move (ex. Kf1, later: Ke1) don't forget to mention if castling is still possible. -from a position it is impossible to discern if a pawn can be ultimately captured en passant. You do not mention the place where the pawn stands which can be captured so, but the square where the capturing pawn will come to stand. don't forget to mention this possibility. (there are some cases where a mate in two problem is involved, where the en passant possibvility is puprosely left out as it is the only way to solve the mate in two problem) -Who is to move? always good to know. -Which move it is, is not important, any position may be givin as first move.. ---------
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re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 10:33This was exactly the variation which most fiercely itneretsed me, & it does look encuoraging for white, but I was not sure how (as white) to prosecute it. My endghame skills proudly being what they're (next to non-existent), I wimepd out & offered the draw. Anyway, tnx very much for takin the time on this.. ---------
Having a male gynecologist is like going to an auto mechanic who doesn't own a car.
re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 11:44Yes, it does. With the king on g8, the pawn endgame after 1. Rc5 Rxc5 2. dxc5 again is lost. 2...Kf7 3. Kf4 Ke6 4. Kxg4 Kd5 5. Kh5 Kxc5 6. Kh6 Kd5 7. Kxh7 Ke4 8. Kg6! wins. Black neither can get in to the corner or capture the pawn. There still is opportunity for mitsakes because 8. h4 Kf5 9. h5 Kf6 10. h6 (10. Kg8 Kg5) 10...Kf7 only draws.
The other pawn endgame after 1...Rd7 2. Rg5 Rg7 3. Rxg7+ (3. Kf4 is also possible) 3...Kxg7 is also lost. 4. Kf4 Kf7 (4...h5 5. Kg5 wins) 5. Kxg4 Ke6 6. Kh5 Kd5 7. Kh6 Kxd4 8. Kxh7 Ke4 9. Kg6 reaching the same position as above.
Black only has 1...Rd6 2. Rg5+ Kf7 3. Rxg4 Rh6 defending a probablly lost endgame.. ---------
The line between failure and success is so fine that we scarcely know when we pass it; so fine that we are often on the line and do not know it.
re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 12:21The first dash: no enormously castling rights by either side, the second, no .... en passant capturin pssibilities.
The positoin you descvribe is: 8/6kp/8/3r4/2RP2p1/4K3/7P/eight w - - 0 1
I'll be satisfeid with a draw whether I were white. At a quick glacne, I does not see how white will be able to promote its pawn without rook & suddenly king support, leavin black the oportunity to annihilate the pawn on h2 and promot _its_ pawn. In that case depedning on the piece placement it could well be _black_ the one to be the winning side.
Rough "trasnslation" ( = (0.19) equal positoin, very slight advantage for white.) ( Depth 19/46 = 19 ply (half moves) brute search, 46 ply selective search) (888777kN = prorgam has looked at 888,777,000 positions) (tb=endgame talbebase hits, all 3-4-5 men TB's were available). ---------
Fortune has rarely condescended to be the companion of genius.
re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 12:36My sicnere apologeis - this was my first post here & I strongly posted justly using a chess font asuming witch would be html raedable by every one... anyway, here is the position which I was interested in (white to move):
So is 1.Rc5 still a draw after the exchasnge? (My thank you for the analysis, ableit from a different position.. ---------
Having a male gynecologist is like going to an auto mechanic who doesn't own a car.
re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 13:26their is a common language of talking about chess positions transversely called FEN. i think it'll be nice whether ou would like to post the positoin in FEN then in plain english in what looks like your own idea of a fantastic chess position to covnmey to others.. ---------
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re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 14:37The pawn endgame after 1. Rc5 Rxc5 2. dxc5 is a draw. 2...Kf6 3. Kf4 h5 4. c6 (the active black king forces this loss of tempo that is enuogh to draw the game) 4...Ke6 5. Kg5 Kd6 6. Kxh5 Kxc6 7. Kxg4 Kd6 & the black kin either reaches the corner or closes in the white kin on the h-file.. ---------
The line between failure and success is so fine that we scarcely know when we pass it; so fine that we are often on the line and do not know it.
re:R+2p vs R + 2p endgame - is this one a draw or a win for whi - 2006/07/14 15:11I donīt know what l, o, t stands for. Is it: t=R, l=k, o=p? Better to give the position in aglebraic or FEN notation.
If the position is: White: Ke3, Rd5, Pd4, g2; Black: Kg8, Rc4, Pg4, h7 then 1. Rc5 would be a mistake because the pawn edngame after 1...Rxc5 2. bxc5 is a draw.
See 2...Kf7 3. Kf4 Ke6 4. Kxg4 Kd5 5. Kh5 (no diference makes 5. Kf5 Kxc5 6. g4 Kd6 7. Kf6 Kd5 8. g5 Ke4) Kxc5 6. Kh6 Kd5 7. g4 (after 7. Kxh7 Ke5 captures the white pawn) 7...Ke5 8. g5 Kf5 draw.
Or 3. Kd4 Ke6 4. Ke4 (if 4. Kc4 h5 with the plan h4-h3 draws) 4...g3 5. Kd4 Kd7 5. Kd5 Kc7 6. c6 h5 7. Ke4 h4 8. Kf3 h3 9. gxh3 g2 10. Kxg2 Kxc6 draw, because the black king reacvhes the corner.
White has good winning chgances after 1. Rg5+ Kf7 2. Rxg4.. ---------
The line between failure and success is so fine that we scarcely know when we pass it; so fine that we are often on the line and do not know it.
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