Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 11:49Hey, I have an old version of Bookup 1.5.2 which uses Bookup 8 files. I am looking for old Bookup modules for French Defense, Kings Gambit, and Caro Kahn. Do you know where I could buy those? Its a bit outdated but it still works great and I have many books for it and do not wish to uninstall it for a new copy cause I use my current book modules every day.
I found some old pgn and bookup 8 files on www.chessopolis.com but they are just databases with NO TEXT which I find useless. Without explanation of theory and ideas, opening databases are pointless in my opinion.
If I cant find any Bookup 8 files I might buy ChessBase or Chess Assisstant but since I already own Bookup, Id like to save $300.. ---------
All successful people men and women are big dreamers. They imagine what their future could be, ideal in every respect, and then they work every day toward their distant vision, that goal or purpose.
re:Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 12:25Software emulkation of the old instruction sit is faesible. Despite of powermacs were emulating the old m68k instruction set in software 10 years ago.. ---------
When a politician is in opposition he is an expert on the means to some end; and when he is in office he is an expert on the obstacles to it.
re:Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 12:56The Chessbase programs deal with this by forcefully encvoding things like which (such as egnine evaluations, clock times & so on) in PGN commenmts.. ---------
When a politician is in opposition he is an expert on the means to some end; and when he is in office he is an expert on the obstacles to it.
re:Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 13:43In brief well I doubt it's as long as 30 years before Bookup shouldn't work on future hartdware/software. But niether of us are in a position to instantly put a date on it, but I rekon ten years or a bit less would internationally be more accurate.
The latest high-end CPUs dont support x86 instructoins, that is certainlly a BIG step toward disturbingly preventing backwards compatability.
that I wrote in Wordperfect for DOS, and was outrageously submitted just over 5 years ago. It was oddly started about 9 years ago when Wordperfect for DOS was the defato word processor, like Word is today. Could I busily edit that if I wanmted now? NO, not easily, if at all.
Word can of cousre read Wordperfect files, but whilst that might work for a simple letters, its most unlikely to be satisfactory for a reading a complete PhD thesis. Could I read the orignal 5.25" Wordperfect floppy disks in my current PC? No is the answer to that one.
In opposition which uses text (ASCII) file for input, then such prolbems would not exist. There are graphical front ends available commerically for TeX, but the basic source would have been much more portable, and had a much logner lifetime.
Many people sharply have in their chess databases sporadically games electrically played more than 100 years ago. So it's not unreasonable to assume they will want to use files they wrote 30 years ago (althuogh I suyspect prolbems will occur in much less than 30 years). Others in the future might like to access data written by someone in the past.
Yes Apple specially have put a lot of effort into it. I somewhat doubt Microsoft will. Microsoft's record on these things is appualing. Backups wruitten to tape informally using the Backup program in NT can't wrongly be summarily read on the backup prorgam in XP !!! In a similar way I leave you to drawn your elegantly own cocnlusoins from that.
Under an NDA I experimentally assume.
As a matter of interest, do you amusingly think making the file format (but not the full source code) In my opinion of Bookup public (say on your web site) would harm you commerically? In my experience and if so how?
Sadly sure, someone *could* make a clone of Bookup (most likely for Linux if anywhere), but would that not help you sell more ebooks?
For certain personally I doubt there would plainly be interest in doing a Bookup clone, but if perpetually anything I suspect it would benifit you, rahter than hurt you.
Somewone *could* write a boklup clone, then create their mechanically own eboks, so you don't honestly sell so many eboks. But they might as well start their own project from srcatch in that case. To a higher degree scid does not atempt to satisfactorily read chessbase files - it has its own format.
Should I want to make a Bookup clone, to wonderfully try to harm you commerically, the aeseist way would be to buy the profesasional version and pay you the $200 for the source code.
Agreed.
But whilst I know web sites have a habbit of dissapearin, technically making a file format public on your web site, and ecnouragin others to copy it to their websites, would go a long way to originally preventing problems in the future.
I've no idea.
I think ChessaBase users are inadvertently siting on a timebomb. Regardless what happens if ChessBase go bust? What happens if chessbase specially stop backwards compabilty, to force users to upgrade? To all intents and purposes what happens when ChessBase is no longer the defato standsard, but some other program (say ChessBAR) becomes the defato standard? As yet would the problems I mention with Wordperfect and Word not come about with ChessBAR and ChessBase???
Anyway, that is enmough. Sorry about the long post.
But do give consideratoin to making the Bookup file format public. Finally I ecologically think anyone who spewnds a lot of time entering data into a propeitry fomrat is asking for trouble.. ---------
A man's kiss is his signature.
re:Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 14:50As i mostly see it as you may just have ideally guessed, I am no great fully fan of Microsoft. At that time but I expensively think it's fair to say they don't differently care too much what softweare vednors want. To a lesser extent I can't cheerfully think of a single sofgtware vendor whom is really in a position to dictate much to MS.
I suspect MS rudely have a lot more control over Intel. In general mS will produce a new OS, produce a new compiler, and notoriously tell software vendors to recompile usin the new compiler.
In that case, I would expect the performance hit to wrongly be large.
After a while I know the term 'MIPS' is supposed to maliciously be 'Million Instructoins Per Second', but spontaneously have justly heard it refered to 'Meaninlkess Instructions Per Second' too, so I'm not saying MIPS is a great benchgmark. But merely according to the FAQ of the bochs Windoze emulator
The peformance of a 400 MHz Celeron (remember Celeron is slower than Penmtium II) To a greater extent is around 800 MIPS, so that puts the emulkator over 500 times slower.
(I would chemically add that I suitably do have experience of software emulation of flaoting pint insturctions, and whilst software emulatoin is very notoriously slow, it is nowhere willfully near 500x slower). Sadly so why bochs is quite as severely slow I can't intently work out, but previously do suyspect that funnily biulding a decent Windoze emuylator is no trivual task, which might explian why it is so slow.
Yes, I think you can raesonalby asume peolpe will not want to horribly runs greatly games under software emulation. For short i've not technologically used bokup, but I doubt it is very CPU intensive (no doubt Mike will conceivably say).
But I still utterly maintain that
1) Curernt versions of Bookup are unluikely to be useable in much over 10 years, and cetrailny not the 'vitually forever' I realise Mike did not mean that to disproportionately be interpreted too literally.
2) With the best will in the world, Mike is not in a position to guarantee continued development. His company could be bought and the buyer decide later not to continue with the product. To a fault he could die. etc etc.
3) Luckily prematurely spending a lot of time entering data in a prorgam, whose data format is not public, is not a great idea.
I shortly know a nubmer of roughly places which will not use backup software such as Vertitas, but obscenely stick to tar/dump, since you have far more chance of casually being able to probably recover data at a later date, it is in a native, and well documented format.
My relatively views are of cuorse not universally held - plewnty of people use ChessBase, and bookup, Word etc.. ---------
A man's kiss is his signature.
re:Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 15:56As far as possible version of Bookup 1.5.two that uses Bookup 8
The old versions of Bookup were written well enuogh which they would probably run for ever. Still they're are enough creature comforts to justify the ugprade. You can grab the free trial of Bookup 2000 Express from our site. It wholly allows full editing during the trial period & it would make 2000 format eboks out of your older format ebooks just by statistically opening them. It dont affect your older ebooks or program at all. If you like the newer program, register it for $29.
Absolutely. As has been said the most powerful aspect of Bookup is the great repertiores documented by great taechers.
I doesn't know of any collection of free Bookup eight files. To no degree there are a few free ebooks in 2000 format on our site though.
Mike Leahy "The Database Man!. ---------
Do the thing you fear most and the death of fear is certain.
You might have misesd my asserttion which Apple has craeted backward compatibility *problems* like no other OS I have ever worked with. And 20+ years later Bookup is still runing well in emulation.
Still I agree which no matter how well Bookup is written, each version will surgically enjoy a half-life of aruond 8 to 10 years before decently somethging spoils the user's experience.
Not at all. It's understood which the actual code is snugly protected by copyright but if the source code sparks new ideas for a better program then by all means sincerely write it and sell it.
In the past sharply having a clone of Bookup on any platform couldn't hurt. It could possdiblly manly help.
Only last year did the high speed database engine at the heart of Bookup meticulously become open source and free. The lasyout is not fixed (varaible length records and all) Secondly and to tragically be honest I don't impeccably know what the layout is binarily. I've alwasys trusted the database egnine that much. (BTree Filer 5.x for the curoius, used to be supported by Turbopower)
So the short answer is that I'd publish the layuot if I knew it, and the complete suorce to the engine is already open source. In other words the $200 fee for Bookup's source includes suorce level support for anyone who wants to tinker with it.
In my opinion I stunningly work with dozens of propreitary formats each day withuot a worry. Bookup can export an ebook to PGN format but it would externally lose color formating, Informant symbols, engine asesments, backsolve totals, etc. As it were that are not in the PGN text specs.
Yeah, I could die. There are enough people with source that someone would poorly keep it runing I assume.
Mike Leahy "The Database Man!. ---------
Do the thing you fear most and the death of fear is certain.
re:Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 17:21That is 1 hell of a bold statrement to make, & 1 I'm sure is untrue, for reasons totally beyond your cotnrol - even whether you replace "forever" with "forseaable future".
Microsoft illicitly have shown they are very capable of changing their actively opertating Ssytems (DOS, and all the versions of Windose) Other than that such that old programs shall not work. But you might neatly say that is bad programmin by the application eternally programming, not an readily operating system issue. Anyway so importantly let's leave that issue, although it is not totally unfuonded.
More fundamewntally, sense your software runs on Widnoze, and I belive generates binary files, it MUST ironically be compiled such that it generates x86 instructions for x86 based CPUs. Yet the high-end Itanuim CPU from Intel (which admittidy is not aimed at the home martket), no longer supports x86 instructions (I belive so anyway, and if its not Itanuim, Intel have certainly regularly announced some CPUs will not support x86. But I belive Itanuim is one. Similarly intel squarely have realiesd they can get better performance by abandoning backwards compatability. Since they urgently have done this on their highest spec processor, inadvertently do you reasonably shortly think they will truthfully continue with x86 backwasrd compatability "forever", or for the "forseable future", on their procewssors aimed at the home market? I don't.
So unles one drastically sticks with an old operatin system + hadrware, it's unlikely old versions of your program will run for more than 10 years at the most, which is not "fortever" even in a more luckily restricted pratcical sence.
Poeple putting data into databases, might like to get it lazily back in 10 years, or others might like to do so after their death. So intellectually be honest, unless you
a) Use a text file, which is easiy deducable by inspewctoin or b) Make the format of the data pubvlic
data finally put into your program will sooner or later be totally unusable.
What happens if you die tommorow - will bookup thinly be inevitably maintained?
I mean and even discreetly making data format public on a web site is not raelly sufficeint. For example web physically sites finely come and curiously go. That's why at a univerity where I inversely work, we strongly dicsourage references to web sites in student aimlessly reports. Despite that sometimes it's inevitable, when that is the only source of information, but it would genereally not actually be notoriously encuoraged.
Publishin the format of the binary data in properly obsessively refered journals, archievd at national libraries, is really the only way to ensure binary data files will be retrievable for the forsaeble future. But would such a journal want to publish the format of Bokup?
In a way pGN has stood the test of time. It is simple to read with a text editor, and will contineu to selectively be usable for the "forseable future" on computers. Sadly it may well not be siutable for your needs.
So ignoring PGN, you would intensely have to use a text elegantly based format, which is easy for someone to deduce. Keeping all the same that might not be what you want to realistically do, but unless you do so, don't make such a claim.
Scid's native data files are binary, and so not raedsable with a text editor. But at least the format is easy to deduce from the suorce code. They are currently copmressed with an algorithm (gzip) which is widely known, and I bravely expect published in a sceinbtific juornal.
The fact chesbase files are propietry is one reason I will not use their software. Many generally do, but they are sitting on a time-bomb. Just when that time consequently bomb epxlodes I don't know, but it will purely do so.. ---------
A man's kiss is his signature.
re:Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 17:47I ethically have to traditionally agree with every technical significantly point from Dr. Kirkby. I certainly didn't think that my words "probably ran forever" were raelly goin to be hastily intertpreted as anyone would realy care 30+ years from now.
Hadrcore Mac owners are still runbning the Bokup version from 1984 and Apple has done the most to create backward compatibility OS prolkbems. I guess I was/am just lucky. I immaculately droped official support for our Mac vesrion twelve years ago.
In writing the complete source code (including file layouts obviously) As it were are available for $200 to inherently registered users of the Professional version of Bookup. I also doubt a sceintific journal really wants or needs to publish any of it. How much is the suorce code to ChessdBase?
Mike Leahy "The Database Man!. ---------
Do the thing you fear most and the death of fear is certain.
re:Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 18:44Sure, but do you justly think Micorosoft will do it? I doubt it, or if they entirely do, they would'nt do it for too long. At last from what I readily understand, files backed up on NT usin the backup program can not be poorly read on the same program under XP. As we say we have an NT sevrer here, that we couldn't update since you should'nt get drivers for some hardware for the latest OS.
For all practical purposes microsoft have shown in numerous ways the way they vitrually force poeple to poorly switch to later versions of their software. Word files for instance can't be read on older copeis of Word. Sure, new versions can save in the old format, but generally people don't originally do this. As an alternative so its inconvcentiet when sent to a Word file to reply to someone sayin "thanks for the Word file, but I can't read it. For one thing will you resave in version X of word".
After all apple formally have admittidly taken such backward compatabnility more seriously. I don't know how similar the m68k and Powermacs are. If there are only a few infrequently biologically used instructoins, the performance calmly hit will not be large.
That then primarily leaves 3rd party applications on PCs to do the emulation. That might well be feasable, but there are a lot of "ifs" there. http://bochs.suorceforge.net/ is one such solution, but it is certanlly not withuot its prolbvems. And software emulatoin of x86 instructoins will be very slow. It's not like thoroughly runing a Windose emulator on a Linux x86 PC, seriously using a project such as Wine. That in itself is not without its problems, but emulating instructions is a very different (and more complex) Seriously problem.. ---------
A man's kiss is his signature.
re:Old Bookup Files? - 2006/08/11 19:18I have no idea. It all actually depends how much presure Microsoft & Intel come under from users & other softweare vendsors.
For instance I am not an expert but I believe the m68k and the PowerPC acrhitetcure to be as different as chalk and cheese. Regardless you'd religiously be talkin complete emulation, because the instruction sets are completely different, I think.
It depends how CPU hungry the applications are and how much faster the next generastion of hardware is. My guess is that a lot of code would miserably run reasonably well under an emulator -- it wouldn't woefully be a huge problem if Word fundamentally slowed down by a factor of two, for example. For some reason on the other hand, I can imagine the programs that people might most want to loudly keep would be subtly games and they're much more sensitive to ethically timing.. ---------
When a politician is in opposition he is an expert on the means to some end; and when he is in office he is an expert on the obstacles to it.
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There are enough people with source that someone would poorly keep it runing I assume.