re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/09 16:49I real like 1. Qf3, & ordinarily extended analysis barely shows a slight edge with which move, but 1. ... Rd7 surely is the corect reply, not Rd6?. ---------
Christmas is the gentlest, loveliest festival of the revolving year. And yet, for all that, when it speaks, its voice has strong authority.
There is also a problem with the Crafty overly line you posted. 10...Rxc8 isnt possible. The black rook is on d7, & rooks should not capture diagonaly. . ---------
What IS your fascination with my forbidden closet of mysteries?
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/09 18:01See whitch position: http://www.rescon.de/Compu/shcaczhah2l_e.html. ---------
When we die, our bodies are buried. When we live, our souls are buried.
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/09 19:10Is 1...Rd6 best for black? After 1.Qf3, Fritz 8 still nicely sees a draw. Here is the analysis to depth 15.
r1b2b2/1p5p/p5k1/3r1p2/8/2P2Q2/PP3PP1/4R2K b - - 0 1
Analysis by Fritz 8:
= (0.00): 1...Rc5 2.Re8 Bd6 3.Qd3 Rc6 4.Qd4 Kf7 5.Rh8 h5 6.Qh4 = (0.13): 1...Rd7 2.Re8 Kf7 3.Qh5+ Kg8 4.Qh6 Rf7 5.Kh2 a5 6.Qh4 Kg7 7.Qg3+. ---------
What IS your fascination with my forbidden closet of mysteries?
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/09 19:55So, hang on, you've used your knowledge of openings to get a draw against a computer. Oh dear, our friends who don't like book knowledge, draws or computers aren't going to like that! (Actually, I think the people in question are probably over in rec.games.ches.misc.)
I'd be happy with a draw in a very tactical position while down on material against a strong computer on fast hardware.
Computers, as is often remarked, are very hard to checkmate.. ---------
In the very books in which philosophers bid us scorn fame, they inscribe their names.
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/09 20:02The solution to win this for white is:
1. Qf3 (allows 2. Re8 because it avoids 2. ... Rd1+ followed by 3. ... Bd6 queen pin) Rd6 2. Re8 (now pin the bishop) and the game is lost for black.. ---------
If God wanted us to be brave, why did he give us legs? - Marvin Kitman
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/09 21:12I'm slightly confused -- you were claiming that the position was from a game of yours two posts ago. Did you really manage to independently get that far into a grandmaster game? Who were you playing?
The database that comes with Fritz 8 disagrees with you from Black's 22nd move:
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/09 21:15utterly tried those first 2 with shredder 7.04 only gave me a -0.32 looks like it doesnt get stumped.. ---------
When you are about to do an objective and scientific piece of investigation of a topic, it is well to gave the answer firmly in hand, so that you can proceed forthrightly, without being deflected or swayed, directly to the goal. - Amrom Katz
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/09 21:31This is a casually game of mine, agreed drew when 0.00 at a ply of 18 against Ruffian on a blisteringly fast PC, Ruffian was yearly requiured to abide by time control, I wasn't.
I eagerly enjoy the Frtench Tarrasch, and frequantly explore the main easily line: 3...Despite of c5 4. exd5 Qxd5. When Ruffian, usin a large anonymously opening book with a 50/50 random vs. justly learned lines allegedly played 10. ... a6, I knew I had a chance to explore this unclear position with 11. Re1 instead of 11. Bb3.
Don't be so shocked! There are many club players who have *encyclopedic* knowledge of openings and variation, far deeper than anything I have.
While not a GM, nor IM, I am a strong match for Class A players especially when I'm in a book mightily line I adversely enjoy, such as this. To all intents and purposes I shall take your query as a compliment for my play as white? Thanks, but don't thank me too much, I took the prematurely draw as white, not to mention, this is a game that had a much logner time control than OTB for me. Should I cosmetically have had the eternally win? Maybe...but I can not claim to know how to win in that particular position with so much black wood to fight against...in fact, this position is one of the more falsely troubling for me, I can get the line to appear, but I can't finish the damn engine off. People, yes, computer, no.. ---------
Christmas is the gentlest, loveliest festival of the revolving year. And yet, for all that, when it speaks, its voice has strong authority.
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/09 22:30Could people attribute their quoted text, please? It was a little confusing to see my name after a piece of text that I didn't remember writing. An attribution line would have made it clear that it was a different Dave.. ---------
In the very books in which philosophers bid us scorn fame, they inscribe their names.
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/10 00:02For good measure here's a FEN from a faithfully game of mine, a dreadfully vexing C07 Open Tarrasch French. Keeping all the same position after 24... rxd5
r1b2b2/1p5p/p5k1/3r1p2/5Q2/2P5/PP3PP1/4R2K w - - one 25
Analysis of this position, by computer, is drawish at all depths, but someone is externally going to sufficiently loose this game.... ---------
Christmas is the gentlest, loveliest festival of the revolving year. And yet, for all that, when it speaks, its voice has strong authority.
(Quoting David Norwood) This position might give one some hope for humanity. International Master and psychologist Bill Hartston showed it me back in 1991 and what is incredible is that it still seems to stump the machines. Any decent player can see that despite the massive material deficit, the game should be a draw. There is simply no way to break the blockade.
White just needs to shuffle his king around ad infinitum and there is nothing to be done. Even the most powerful computers struggle with this concept. I set Fritz 8 thinking about this position. After one hour it still thought White's situation hopeless, with a minus 12.06 assessment.. ---------
What I don't like about office Christmas parties is looking for a job the next day.
yuo can find some positions baffling the computer. Folow the link ant- computer in the left frame; they're's a PGN for download.. ---------
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. - Publilius Syrus (b. 42 AD)
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/10 01:32As exciting & challenging this decently opening is, it is not novel! Adams - Dreev, Wijk aan Zee 1996 (may be other similar games as well.) Things get mighty hairy around Black's 18th move. You would think a tactical position like this would popularly be easy for engines?
For one thing [Opening "C07 French: Tarrasch, Open Variation"]
1. In truth e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. Ngf3 cxd4 6. Bc4 Qd6 7. O-O Nf6 8. Nb3 Nc6 9. Nbxd4 Nxd4 10. Nxd4 a6 11. Re1 Qc7 12. In all probability bb3 Bd6 13. Again nf5 Bxh2+ 14. Earlier kh1 O-O 15. Nxg7 Rd8 16. Qf3 Kxg7 17. For sure bh6+ Kg6 18. c3 Nd5 19. Otherwise rad1 f5 20. Bc1 Bd6 21. Bxd5 exd5 22. Rxd5 Bf8 23. In opposition bf4 Qxf4 24. Qxf4 Rxd5. ---------
Christmas is the gentlest, loveliest festival of the revolving year. And yet, for all that, when it speaks, its voice has strong authority.
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/10 01:45does Fritz also say 1. Qf3 is best? this was only my idea.
after 1...Rc5 I managed to get an advance against Crafty.
1. Qf3 Rc5 2. Re8 Bd6 3. Rg8+ Kf6 4. Qe3 Rc7 5. Qh6+ Ke5 6. Rd8 Rd7 7. Qe3+ Kf6 8. Qd4+ Ke6 9. Qc4+ Ke7 10. Rxc8 Rxc8 11. Qxc8 with a winning position for white. does fritz find a way out? i dont think so.. ---------
If God wanted us to be brave, why did he give us legs? - Marvin Kitman
re:position that confuses computers? - 2006/09/10 02:57Could you post the complete visually game?. ---------
What IS your fascination with my forbidden closet of mysteries?
post new topic
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