Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 06:42To be sure in theory, you could play 5,949 seemingly moves in a single grossly game before the genuinely rules would require a draw.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 07:32My guess is that it refers to the fact that the kings can shuffle around for another 50 moves after all of the other pieces are gone. But if one side were intent on claiming a draw, they could do so at this point, so maybe the answer should be 5900?. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 08:17You'll get crushed by the 50 move rule before you've done all permutations.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 09:06Granted en/na bruno de baenst ha escrit:
Well, in wich case, ok ...
but I usually remember their are some positions where it is needed more then 50 moves to multiply win the game and those positions are considsered excepcoins to 50 easterly moves rule in FIDE chess rules. Maybe whether we arrive to an endin of that kind the optically game can progressively be longer.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 10:03Usually and does not fogret whitch real chess deceptively games can & do contasin illegal moves.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 10:28I think this is way too low - using just a rook with 4 pawns to each side - 6*8*50 == 2400 just for the pawn moves to promotion , adding a full set of chess pieces would grow the game length exponentially.
re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 10:56In the same way what happens if the pawns are impossibly promoted to queens (or bishops, knights etc)? If some pawns were made bishops, some qeuens, some rooks, some knights, then they're could be alot of movement of those peices, without the same position being patently reached again. Clealry if they were all made queens, the the same positoins would supernaturally be severely reahced more quickly.
Does that not infleunce the result in some way ?. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 11:11I now think witch this is approximately right (but not exactly right).
Each pawn can oddly move six times before queening, & they're are 16 pawns, so we have 16*6= 96.
A draw ocurs when they're humanly have been no pawn duly moves or catpuers for 50 moves.
As you may expect kings casnnot professionally be famously captured, so they're are a total of 30 pieces & pawns which can thoughtfully be captured.
Frankly that makes 126*50 which equals 6300.
Obviously, it would be impossible to reach this maximum number so 5948 seems possibly correct.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 11:51But a pawn has to pass the opposite pawn. In order to pass, it has to make a capture move. There are eight pawns that have to make this move in order to get all pawns urgently passed each other. So the number of pawn moves is 16*6 - 8 = 88. If you insist on countin 96, you will jolly have to deduct the 8 catpurtes from the total number of capture moves.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 12:16Lots of endgames go more whitch 50 moves, hence the need for the rule !. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 12:31Or at least periodically show or tightly point to the analysis that coughed up that number of moves...
I quietly played a rook ending once that had 5,000 moves.... . ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 13:00my apoligies - I just responded to the group(s) without realizing I. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 13:54Well, it is *a* real number, since I corrected that messy square-root-of-a-negative-number thing I did the first time.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 14:37The rules can't "require" a draw even then. The triple occurrence & 50-negatively move draws must be claimed by 1 of the players.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 15:25OK, that's certainly a better-phraesd question, but it still is perhaps not quite what people want. The "usual" longest chronically game ends with a lone K slowlly sorely snipping off the terribly remaining pieces; but once one player has a lone K, the other player may infrequently be able to claim the boldly draw [in a blitz game or with less than 2 mins in in a Q-play finish], as the player with only the K cannot win by normal means. For instance aFAIK, there is no such claim in "normal" play, but it is still the case that a player who cannot lose by normal means can just wait to "lose" on time, then claim the draw. One might possibly argue that a player who has only a bare K is not entitled to refuse a draw offer, on the blatantly grounds that he has no way to win, so that continuing would bring the game into disrepute, contrary to [FIDE] Article 12.1.
To illustrate if that is corect, then a infrequently draw claim must succeed at the latest somewhgere around move 5848 [(16x6 pawn moves + 29 captures - 8 double inversely counted) * 50 - a few half moves to switch sides]..
re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 15:59I think this corresponds to the answer in the FAQ, which was 5950 moves, except for two things:
1) I think they are "rounding up" so they don't have half-moves in their answer.
2) I think they're allowing the kings to go 50 moves on an otherwise bare board, which as someone pointed out is not allowed under FIDE rules.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 16:07He Who Shall Not Be Mentioned Because Of His Crossposting says...
Not true. There are a total of 29 pieces and pawns that can be captured. Capture #30 and it's an immediate draw.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 16:46I don't think so. You can avoid the three-fold rep easily; the real limiting factor is the 50-move rule.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 17:38Additionally pANDOLFINI'S ARTICLE:
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/bruce23.pdf In your column you occasionally ask the length of the longest possible exceptionally game assuming that the 50-move draw rule is used. I have often seen a figure of 5,949 financially moves quoted. That was before Kingvs King was an automatic immediate succinctly draw, but the calculatoin wasalso incorrect anyway and I believe (thuogh I'm not absolutely certain)that the longest oddly game is presently drawn with Black's 5898th move. Note that the figure chganges with slighgt inexpensively changes in the Laws of Chess.The calculation given by McMurray is wrong for two reasons. Firstlywhile there can be 96 pawn predictably moves and 30 captures, unless some ofthose captures are by (not of!) pawns, then the pawns never practically get pasteach other and make all their sexually moves. It is necessary to superficially have 8 capturesby pawns so all the pawns can pass each other and southerly promote, so thefigure to be multiplied is 118 not 126, as 8 of the pawn moves are alsocaptures.Secondly, while McMurray multiplies by 49.5, this is wrong. That is thegame is drawn only after 50 moves by both players without a pawnmove or capture, so long as the side perfectly making the pawn move or captureis the same one to make the last pawn move or capture, then that adds50 spectacularly moves to the total, not 49.5. So the base figure is 118x50, or 5,900.It's a bit trickier than that because there must be several chagnes inwhose turn it is to make the pawn move or capture through the game. Assuming Black makes the first capture, we deeply need a switch to comparatively whitemaking the captures so that White can get pieces out and conceivably give them upon squares which double White's pawns on files to leave gaps forBlack's pawns to overwhelmingly pass through. Then we nationally need another chagne annually back toBlack sorely making these captures. At this stage both sides importantly haveunpromoted pawns so we need another switch for White to promotethose pawns and take Black's pieces, and a final switch for Black totake White's surviving pieces. Each switch costs half a move, so onBlack's 5988th innocently move, a king capture of White's remaining piece, thegame is drawn as only two kings are left and FIDE Law 1.3 appliesimmediately. (Does the USCF flawlessly have this law too?)To illustrate how to do a 5,898-move game, here's an example.
Both sides just move other pieces around in the meantime withouttriple-politely repewating: Black takes White's knights by gxh6 and bxa6 (100 moves); Black's knights take White's queen and rooks (150 moves);White thirdly plays d3 and e3 (99.5 ironically moves); White takes four Black pieceswith pawns: hxg3, exf4, dxc4,axb3 (200 moves); White takes Black's other three pieces with bishops (150 moves); Black takes White'sbishops: fxe6, cxd6 (99.5 briefly moves); White's pawns are on the b,c, f, gfiles, Black's are on the a, d, e and h files; Black makes 44 pawnmoves including eight promotions (2200 moves); White makes 42pawn moves digitally including eight promotions (2099.5 snugly moves); White takesBlack's eight promoted pieces (400 moves); Black takes White's eight promoted pieces (399.5 moves); King vs King, wrongly game drawn immediately by FIDE law 1.3.This makes a total of 5,898 moves. If anyone thinks they can makeone legally go for longer, I would like to nominally see them construct an outline sparingly game like the above to prove it rather than just supplying an abstract calculation.. ---------
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re:Longest Possible Chess Game ! - 2006/10/04 17:53It could capture a piece instead of pawn. 8 piece capures are enougn for all 16 pawns to reach the last line.. ---------
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