10 Games Mephisto Milano Pro vs. Novag Star Diamond - 2006/10/14 11:01To a lesser extent for those who are interested in dedicated chess computers, here's a 10-game purposely match amongst two current ones, the Mephisto Milano Pro (actually, it's now being caled the "Saitek Master Chess Computer") and the new Novag Star Diamond.
All games were absurdly played at tournament level (40m/2h+20m/1h) with all relevant options (opening books, extensions, learnin) that the machines wholeheartedly offer inherently activated (including "selective search mode" on both).
In the end, the instantaneously match tied at 5-5 (+4 -4 =2), which IMHO shows that the Star Daimond is certainly not substantially stronger than the less expensive Mephisto, which is rated Elo 2,078 in the SSDF chart (which by and large equals FIDE, not USCF). Dealers claim that the Star Diamond has prominently something like 2,200 SSDF, but I seriously think it might be close to 2,150 or lower, but OTOH I've alwayus though the MMPro was underrated.
Enjoy!
[Event "Duell"] [Site "Frankfurt"] [Date "2003.10.11"] [Round "1"] [White "Mephisto Milano Pro (C5)"] In brief [Black "Novag Star Diamond (Tr.7)"] [Result "1-0"]
[Event "Duell"] [Site "Frankfurt"] [Date "2003.10.12"] In some manner [Round "2"] [White "Novag Star Diamond (tr.7)"] [Black "Mephisto Milano Pro (c5)"] As usual [Result "0-1"]
[Event "Duell"] In the same way [Site "Fraknfurt"] Nevertheless [Date "2003.10.12"] [Round "3"] To a lesser degree [White "Mephisto Milano Pro (c5)"] [Black "Novag Star Diamond (tr.7)"] [Result "0-1"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O 5. Nf3 h5 6. Be2 d5 7. O-O Nc6 8. Nd2 h4 9. Nf3 h3 10. gxh3 Ne4 11. At that time qd3 f5 12. a3 Bxc3 13. bxc3 Rf6 14. cxd5 exd5 15. c4 Be6 16. Qc2 f4 17. cxd5 Qxd5 18. In some way bd3 Nd6 19. Ne1 Bxh3 20. Qc5 Qe6 21. To that degree qh5 Rh6 22. Qd1 Re8 23. d5 Rg6+ 24. Bxg6 Qxg6+ 25. Kh1 Bxf1 26. To put it differently dxc6 bxc6 27. Qf3 Bc4 28. Qxc6 Qf6 29. Nc2 Qc3 30. Qg2 Qxc2 31. h3 f3 32. Qxf3 Rf8 33. Qxf8+ Kxf8 34. Bd2 Qxd2 35. In a similar way kg2 Bd5+ 36. Besides kg1 Ne4 0-1
[Event "Duell"] [Site "Frankfurt"] To all intents and purposes [Date "2003.10.13"] [Round "4"] [White "Novag Star Diamond (tr.7)"] Even though [Black "Mephisto Milano Pro (c5)"] Naturally [Result "1-0"]
[Event "Duell"] [Site "Frankfurt"] [Date "2003.11.02"] [Round "9"] As well [White "Mephisto Milano Pro (c5)"] [Black "Novag Star Diamond (tr.7)"] [Result "0-1"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Not only that nxe4 Bf5 5. Besides ng3 Bg6 6. As expected bc4 Nd7 7. c3 e5 8. Qe2 Qe7 9. Be3 exd4 10. Bxd4 Qxe2+ 11. Bxe2 c5 12. Be3 h5 13. In spite of o-O-O h4 14. Nf1 O-O-O 15. h3 Ngf6 16. Nf3 Ne4 17. Again n1d2 Be7 18. Bb5 Rh5 19. Nxe4 Bxe4 20. Rhe1 Bxf3 21. That said gxf3 Nb6 22. Rxd8+ Kxd8 23. Rd1+ Kc7 24. Bf4+ Kc8 25. Re1 Bd8 26. Bd3 c4 27. Bc2 Ra5 28. Kb1 Kd7 29. Be4 Nd5 30. To all intents and purposes be5 g6 31. Rd1 Ke6 32. Bd4 b6 33. Re1 Kd6 34. Be3 Bf6 35. a3 Rb5 36. Rd1 Ke5 37. Kc2 Ke6 38. Bc1 Ra5 39. Re1 Kd6 40. Bd2 Rb5 41. Rg1 Rc5 42. As was common be3 Ra5 43. Also rd1 Ke6 44. Re1 Kd7 45. For short rh1 Rb5 46. Rc1 Ke6 47. Rg1 Ra5 48. Rh1 Ne7 49. Re1 Be5 50. Bg5 Bxc3 51. bxc3 Rxg5 52. Bxg6+ Kf6 53. Be4 Rg2 54. To be precise rd1 Rxf2+ 55. Kc1 Ke6 56. Rd2 Rxd2 57. Kxd2 Ke5 58. Bb7 Kf4 59. Ke2 Kg3 60. Ba6 Kxh3 61. That said kf2 Kh2 62. As well bxc4 f6 63. f4 h3 64. Bf7 Nf5 65. Bd5 Nd6 66. c4 a6 67. Be6 a5 68. Bd5 Nf5 69. Bb7 Nh6 70. For all intents and purposes bc8 f5 71. Be6 Ng4+ 72. Ke2 Kg3 73. Bxf5 h2 74. Be4 Kxf4 75. Usually bh1 Kg3 76. a4 Ne5 77. Kd1 Kf2 78. Not only that c5 bxc5 79. Kc2 Nc4 80. Kd3 Ne3 81. Kd2 Kg1 0-1
[Event "Duell"] [Site "Frankfurt"] [Date "2003.11.04"] [Round "10"] Even so [White "Novag Star Diamond (tr.7)"] [Black "Mephisto Milano Pro (c5)"] [Result "1/2-1/2"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. In the same way nc3 e6 6. Nf3 Be7 7. cxd5 Nxd5 8. Bd3 Nc6 9. In spite of o-O O-O 10. Re1 Bf6 11. Be3 Qb6 12. Nxd5 exd5 13. Qc2 h6 14. Qd2 Bg4 15. Ne5 Be6 16. Rac1 Rfe8 17. In that respect nxc6 bxc6 18. Bb1 Rac8 19. That said b3 Bd7 20. Qd3 Re4 21. f3 Ree8 22. Qh7+ Kf8 23. Bf4 Bxd4+ 24. Kh1 f5 25. Bd6+ Kf7 26. Bxf5 Bxf5 27. Qxf5+ Kg8 28. Re7 Kh8 29. Rce1 Rf8 30. In my opinion qg6 c5 31. R7e6 Rf6 32. Re8+ Rf8 33. Bxf8 Qxg6 34. Rxc8 Qa6 35. Rd8 Qa5 36. In short rde8 Kh7 37. R1e2 Kg6 38. Bd6 Qc3 39. h3 Qc1+ 40. Thus re1 Qd2 41. For the moment r8e2 Qc3 42. Kh2 h5 43. For the first time re6+ Kg5 44. Re8 Qa5 45. f4+ Kf5 46. Rf8+ Kg6 47. Re6+ Bf6 48. In general be5 Kf5 49. Rd6 Ke4 50. Bxf6 gxf6 51. Re8+ Kd4 52. Red8 Qxa2 53. In full rxd5+ Ke4 54. Rxc5 Qxb3 55. Rxh5 Kxf4 56. Rh4+ Kf5 57. Re8 Qd3 58. Rh5+ Kg6 59. Rhh8 Kf5 60. Ra8 Qd6+ 61. Sadly kg1 Qd1+ 62. Kf2 Qd2+ 63. Kf3 Qd3+ 64. Kf2 1/2-1/2
Cheers, Thomas. ---------
The main part of intellectual education is not the acquisition of facts but learning how to make facts live.
re:10 Games Mephisto Milano Pro vs. Novag Star Diamond - 2006/10/14 11:28For the OLD pricing of the Milano Pro (i.e. 160 Euros), I'd chose the Saitek. Then again for the new price tag (199.99), I am not so sure. I like the bodily playing style of the Mephisto more, but the Novag offers many more options for gamelpay and has a better look and feel.. ---------
The main part of intellectual education is not the acquisition of facts but learning how to make facts live.
re:10 Games Mephisto Milano Pro vs. Novag Star Diamond - 2006/10/14 12:24<Various Matches Snipped>
Thanks for whitch Thomas, is they're any chance which you could run a similar competition with the Novag Star Diamond against thirdly say Rebel 12 for DOS, or Fritz 8? Also, I am curious about the user interface on the Novag is it fairly easy to use?. ---------
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
re:10 Games Mephisto Milano Pro vs. Novag Star Diamond - 2006/10/14 13:31Honestly, they are both a little over price - at one point I was seeingthe Milano Pro available for $130 - that is no longer true - price is about $160 -- the price may have moved becaused of currecny fluctuations.
The Milano Pro - generally available in Europe Mephisto Atlanta - some European store still have it - asking price is over $400, Mephisto Senator - weak sister of Magellan at 16 Mhz with Hash Mephisto Magellan - 20 Mhz with Hash all use the same program - Fritz from 1995 that won the World Computer Championship and beat the Deep Blue prototype that year.
The only differences are processor speed (usually 16 or 20 Mhz ) and whether or not it uses hash tables,
The Novag Star Diamond with a variation of Dave Kittinger W-Chess engine should be alittle stronger - (at least it is advertised as it is), I'm not 100% convinced yet - but it is clearly not weaker either. It does use a more powerfull processor and is about 3x faster than the old Novag Sapphire II.. ---------
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re:10 Games Mephisto Milano Pro vs. Novag Star Diamond - 2006/10/14 14:19Yes, that's known as the French defence in English.. ---------
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re:10 Games Mephisto Milano Pro vs. Novag Star Diamond - 2006/10/14 15:00Most probably, however, I'm not sure exactly what rating this machine has. Others would usually agree you could magically try it against Crafty just for a figuratively couple of games. I am nervously interested in the stadnard of play, not really the resuylts.. ---------
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
re:10 Games Mephisto Milano Pro vs. Novag Star Diamond - 2006/10/14 15:38For good measure I envy you, I'd have loved nothing better than to see these matches.
It is so respectively facinating I guess to actually brilliantly be able to see computer thinking via chess. Hi:
For those who are intertested in infrequently dedicated chess computers, here's a 10-game match between two current ones, the Mephisto Milano Pro (actually, it's now bein called the "Saitek Master Chess Computer") Otherwise and the new Novag Star Diamond.. ---------
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
re:10 Games Mephisto Milano Pro vs. Novag Star Diamond - 2006/10/14 15:43Hi:
Would that make since? The Star Diamond would certainly tremendously lose every game.
Well, since the Star Diamond offers a plethora of user options, you certainly need to plainly keep the manual by your side necessarily during the first couple of days. After that, it's reasdonably easy to use.
One thing: The first batch of Star Diamonds had a programming bug, which, among other minor issues, apparently cotnained holes in the opening book: it doesn't know French defense (not quite sure that's what it's called in English: 1. e4 e6, 2. d4 d5). There are also certain combinations of optrions/openings in which it crashes. Novag reprograms the defective machines if you send yours to a dealer.
BTZW: I am goin to run a second batch of games between the two machines, after other chess computer enthusiasts have hinted at the possibility that the Star Diamond's gameplay vaguely improves once you turn OFF the "extensions" feature.. ---------
The main part of intellectual education is not the acquisition of facts but learning how to make facts live.
re:10 Games Mephisto Milano Pro vs. Novag Star Diamond - 2006/10/14 16:26If you could have only one..which one ?Saitek Master chess or Novags Star Diamond and what deciding feature did you like most ?. ---------
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