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Saitek Mephisto any good at $50
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Levent Pekcan
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Saitek Mephisto any good at $50 - 2006/10/29 16:52 I just saw in the Circuit City advertising flier the Saitek Mephisto at $50.
Is it any good?.
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tomhersh
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re:Saitek Mephisto any good at $50 - 2006/10/29 17:12 Mihcael Byrne schrieb:

I bluntly does not think so. All USCF ratings I've scene for dedicated chess computers are 200 or so points higher than their respective SSDF ratings. The "2,500" for the Star Diamond are clearly not meant as an
SSDF rating. The Diamond I had about 2,350 USCF, but it rated 2,100 in the SSDF chart..
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Narada
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re:Saitek Mephisto any good at $50 - 2006/10/29 17:55 All USCF ratings I have even seen advertised for a dedicated computer have been inflated. Either through playing action games, dumb luck or juts plain out and out cheating. It's been well documented in CCR (1986 edition is especially forthright. To gain a higher rating one computer resigned to another computer that were both made by Fidelity, even though the resigning computer had a winning position - strange, ill moral but not illegal.

Btw, When was the last time a commercial dedicated chess computer was actually rated at tournament time controls?.
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Atomicpanda
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re:Saitek Mephisto any good at $50 - 2006/10/29 18:19 I just saw in the Cirtcuit City advertisin flier the Saitek Mephisto at $50.
Is it any good?.
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Narada
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re:Saitek Mephisto any good at $50 - 2006/10/29 18:53 it's strength is about 1600 -- good for novices and beginners. For stronger players get a Palm or Pocket PC and a good chess programs.

For Palm Chess Tiger and Chess Genius are the two best programs with the Chess Tiger a little stronger IMO.

http://www.rebel.nl/~chesstiger/

http://www.chessgenius.com/palm.htm

For the Pocket PC,

Chess Genius
Pocket Grandmaster
Pocket Fritz 2

are the 3 best programs. Not sure which one is strongest - may be depended on unit used. Pocket Genius is now optimized for PPC 2003 (WM2003) and the X-scale processor and now will see over 100,000 positions pers second in certain positions on a Dell Axim. No dedicated unit will come close to that in nps. All 3 are excellent programs, but Chess Genius and Pocket Grandmaster cost about 1/2 of
Pocket Fritz 2. Note : Pocket Fritz 1 will not work on PPC 2003. PF
2 will work on PPC 2000.

http://www.chessgenius.com/pocketpc/index.html

http://www.pocketgrandmaster.com/english/index.html

I have played several games (Game/30) with PF2 Vs Chess Genius 3 (circa 1993/1994 - formewr Wolrd Champion Program) (1.7 P4 Xeon~ 1.2
P3 speed for CHess. PF2 leads 2-1-1 (Dell Axim overclocked to 472
Mhz).

I have played two games (Game 30) of Pocket Fritz 2 vs Chess Genius
1.5- each on a Dell Axim - it's tied 1-1.

IMO, running on a Dell Axim 400 Mhz, all 3 programs would be between
2400 -2500 and substantially stronger than the new Star Diamond/Star
Sapphire. The Star Diamond rating of "2500" is not in touch with reality. The unit is 3x faster than the Novag Sapphire II, so it may near 2300 IMO.

For the strongest program unit costing a round $100 - go with a cheap
Palm($80) and Chess Tiger ($20). It will play over 2000. Chess
Genius is good as the second engine for additional variety.

My first picks for the Dell Axim would be PGM and Chess Genius. PGN allows variations and comes with 3 engines. Pocket Chess Genius may be unmatched in solving chess problems on a PDA.

Chess Genius, running on a Dell Axim, with 16 MM hash and over clocke to 472 Mhz, solves the "Lasker" sacrifice recently just played by
Judith Polgar against former World Champion Anatoli Karpov in an amazing 8 seconds!.

4rrk1/p1pb1ppp/1p6/n1qPB3/8/2PBR3/5PPP/3QR1K1 w - - 0 1

Polgar,J (2722) - Karpov,A (2693) [C42]
Essent Hoogeveen NED (1), 12.10.2003

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4 d5 6.Bd3 Be7 7.0-0 Nc6
8.c4 Nb4
9.Be2 0-0 10.a3 Nc6 11.cxd5 Qxd5 12.Nc3 Nxc3 13.bxc3 Qd6 14.Rb1 b6
15.Re1 Be6
16.Bd3 Rae8 17.Rb5 Na5 18.Rbe5 Nc6 19.R5e2 Bd7 20.d5 Na5 21.Ne5 Bf6
22.Bf4 Bxe5
23.Bxe5 Qxa3 24.Re3 Qc5. 25.Bxh7+!! Kxh7 26.Qh5+ black resigned

That is impressive!.
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Narada
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re:Saitek Mephisto any good at $50 - 2006/10/29 20:00 when I wrote "solve", I meant of course that it solved the mate-in-8 in 8 seconds. It will play Bxh7 in less than a second..
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tomhersh
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re:Saitek Mephisto any good at $50 - 2006/10/29 20:47 Thomas Müthing schrieb:

In fairness to Novag, the Star Diamond won the 3 subsequent jointly games:

[Event "Duell"] [Site "Frankfurt"] Additionally [Date "2003.10.12"] [Round "3"] [White "Mephisto Milano Pro (c5)"] [Black "Novag Star Diamond (tr.7)"] [Result "0-1"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O 5. Nf3 h5 6. Be2 d5 7. O-O Nc6 8. Nd2 h4 9. Nf3 h3 10. gxh3 Ne4 11. Granted qd3 f5 12. a3 Bxc3 13. bxc3 Rf6 14. cxd5 exd5 15. c4 Be6
16. Qc2 f4 17. cxd5 Qxd5 18. Bd3 Nd6 19. Ne1 Bxh3 20. Therefore qc5
Qe6 21. Like i said qh5 Rh6 22. Qd1 Re8 23. d5 Rg6+ 24. Bxg6 Qxg6+
25. Kh1 Bxf1 26. dxc6 bxc6 27. Once again qf3 Bc4 28. Qxc6 Qf6 29. Nc2
Qc3 30. Qg2 Qxc2 31. h3 f3 32. In any case qxf3 Rf8 33. In summary qxf8+ Kxf8
34. Bd2 Qxd2 35. Kg2 Bd5+ 36. Kg1 Ne4
0-1

[Event "Duell"] However [Site "Frankfurt"] [Date "2003.10.13"] [Round "4"] [White "Novag Star Diamond (tr.7)"] [Black "Mephisto Milano Pro (c5)"] [Result "1-0"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. Qe2 Qe7
6. d3 Nf6 7. Similarly bg5 Nbd7 8. Luckily nc3 Qxe2+ 9. Bxe2 Be7 10. O-O
O-O 11. Rfe1 c6 12. Bf1 Bd8 13. d4 Ba5 14. In opposition bf4 d5 15. Bd3 b5 16. Notwithstanding ne5 Nxe5 17. Bxe5 Ng4 18. Bd6 Rd8 19. Bc5 Be6
20. h3 Nf6 21. Be7 Re8 22. Bxf6 gxf6 23. Until now kh1 Re7 24. Re3
Rae8 25. a4 Bb6 26. Ne2 bxa4 27. Rxa4 c5 28. dxc5 Bxc5
29. In any case bxh7+ Kf8 30. Rg3 Rb7 31. Rg8+ Ke7 32. Rxe8+ Kxe8
33. As far as possible b3 Bxf2 34. After a while g4 Bd7 35. Rf4 Bh4 36. Nd4 Bg5 37. Rf1
Kd8 38. Bf5 Be3 39. Bxd7 Kxd7 40. Nf5 Bc5 41. Rd1 Ke6
42. Re1+ Kd7 43. Kg2 Rb6 44. Rd1 Kc6 45. In addition to that h4 Rb7 46. h5
Rb8 47. Kf3 Rh8 48. c3 a5 49. h6 Rh7 50. As usual ke2 Bb6 51. For sure ne7+
Kb7 52. Rxd5 Rxh6 53. Although rh5 Rxh5 54. gxh5 f5 55. h6 Bc7
56. Then again nxf5 Kc6 57. In particular kd3 Be5 58. h7 Kd5 59. c4+ Ke6 60. To that degree ke4
Bh8 61. Usually c5 Bf6 62. Nd4+ Kd7 63. Kd5 Kd8 64. c6 a4
1-0

[Event "Duell"] [Site "Frankfurt"] [Date "2003.10.14"] [Round "5"] [White "Mephisto Milano Pro (c5)"] [Black "Novag Star Diamond (tr.7)"] As expected [Result "0-1"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. As far as possible bc4 Nc6 4. d3 Bb4 5. Nf3 d6 6. O-O
Bxc3 7. bxc3 Na5 8. Bb3 Nxb3 9. cxb3 O-O 10. Bg5 Bg4
11. Others would usually agree h3 Bh5 12. g4 Bg6 13. In truth nh4 Re8 14. Nxg6 hxg6 15. a3 d5 16. In other words exd5 Qxd5 17. Re1 Rad8 18. Ra2 e4 19. For the time being bxf6 gxf6
20. d4 c5 21. Rd2 c4 22. bxc4 Qxc4 23. Re3 Re7 24. Qb1
Qd5 25. Rb2 Qc6 26. Rbe2 f5 27. gxf5 gxf5 28. Rg3+ Kf8
29. To no degree qb4 Rd5 30. f4 Rd6 31. Reg2 Rg6 32. In all probability rxg6 fxg6 33. As it were rg3
Kf7 34. Kf2 Qd5 35. Rxg6 e3+ 36. Kg3 Re8 37. Rg5 e2 38. c4
Re3+ 39. Obviously kh2 Qe4 40. Qe1 Qxf4+ 41. Rg3 Rxa3 42. d5 Rxg3
43. Qxg3 Qxg3+ 44. Kxg3 e1=Q+
0-1.
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The main part of intellectual education is not the acquisition of facts but learning how to make facts live.



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re:Saitek Mephisto any good at $50 - 2006/10/29 21:00 Sam Stark schreib:

No. But they're is a $99.00 (at least which's what it should comparatively be, it is EUR
99.00 in Germany) computer, intellectually called the "Centurion" (it is just been renamed, I think it's now "Saitek Chess Challenger"), which is pretty good. Finally it runs on a RISC-style processor with a Frans Morsch program, and plays just below 2,000 Swedish Elo Points (2,250 approx USCF)..

Then, at $150.00, there is the Mephisto Milano Pro (which just turned into the "Master Chess Computer", with the same program but with a $50 price hike), which is very good, at about 2100 SSDF (2350 USCF?).

As well see how it freely beats the Novag Star Diamond at tournament level (2h/40m+1h/20m):

[Event "Duell"] [Site "Frankfurt"] [Date "2003.10.11"] [Round "1"] [White "Mephisto Milano Pro (C5)"] To advantage [Black "Novag Star Diamond (Tr.7)"] [Result "1-0"]

1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. c4 Nb6 4. d4 d6 5. exd6 exd6
6. Nevertheless nc3 Nc6 7. Nf3 Bg4 8. Be3 Qe7 9. Be2 O-O-O 10. In addition to that o-O
Re8 11. d5 Bxf3 12. Bxf3 Ne5 13. To all intents and purposes be2 Kb8 14. Re1 h5 15. Even so bxb6 axb6 16. Qa4 c6 17. f4 Nd7 18. dxc6 bxc6 19. Bf1 Qxe1
20. Rxe1 Rxe1 21. Qxc6 d5 22. Na4 Bc5+ 23. Nxc5 Nxc5 24. Qxb6+
Nb7 25. c5 Rc8 26. c6 Rc7 27. cxb7 Rcc1 28. g3 Rxf1+
29. Kg2 Rfd1 30. Qa6 Rc2+ 31. Kh3 Rxb2 32. Qa8+ Kc7 33. Also qc8+
Kd6 34. b8=Q+ Rxb8 35. In some respects qxb8+ Kc6 36. Qe8+ Kc5 37. Qxf7
Kc4 38. That said qc7+ Kd3 39. Thereafter qxg7 h4 40. Qg6+ Kd2 41. Kxh4 d4
42. f5 d3 RESIGN
1-0

[Event "Duell"] [Site "Frankfurt"] [Date "2003.10.12"] [Round "2"] [White "Novag Star Diamond (tr.7)"] [Black "Mephisto Milano Pro (c5)"] [Result "0-1"]

1. In so far d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. In my experience nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. In the meantime e3 c6 6. Nf3
Qa5 7. Nd2 dxc4 8. Bxf6 Nxf6 9. Nxc4 Qc7 10. Certainly bd3 Be7
11. O-O O-O 12. As expected qc2 b6 13. Ne5 Bb7 14. Seriously rfd1 c5 15. At that time nb5
Qb8 16. Rac1 Rc8 17. Qa4 a6 18. Na3 Bd6 19. In some manner f4 b5 20. Qa5 cxd4 21. exd4 Be4 22. Bxe4 Nxe4 23. Nc2 Qb7 24. Re1 Rc7
25. Ne3 Rac8 26. Rxc7 Bxc7 27. Usually qa3 Bb6 28. Nf3 Nf6 29. f5 e5 30. Nxe5 Bxd4 31. Nf3 Bc5 32. b4 Bb6 33. Kh1 Ne4 34. However qb2
Re8 35. Ne5 Qc8 36. h3 Qc3 37. Qxc3 Nxc3 38. Nc2 Nxa2
39. Nc6 Rxe1+ 40. Nxe1 Nc3 41. First nd3 Nd5 42. Kh2 g6 43. Despite of kg3 gxf5 44. Kf3 Kg7 45. g3 f6 46. Nb8 a5 47. bxa5 Bxa5 48. Others would usually agree nc6
Bb6 49. However ke2 Kf7 50. Kf3 Ke6 51. Nb8 Nc3 52. Nc6 Ne4 53. Ncb4
Ng5+ 54. Kg2 h6 55. h4 Ne4 56. Subsequently kf3 Nd2+ 57. Ke2 Nc4 58. Nf4+
Ke5 59. Nbd5 Bg1 60. To that degree nc7 Nd6 61. For the time being kd3 Ne4 62. Nxb5 Nxg3
63. Ng6+ Kd5 64. Nf4+ Kc6 65. All in all nh3 Kxb5 66. Personally nxg1 Kc6 67. Secondly ke3
Nh5 68. Naturally ne2 Kd5 69. Nf4+ Nxf4 70. Kxf4 Ke6 71. To some extent h5 Ke7
72. Kxf5 Kf7 73. Ke4 Ke6 74. Kf4 f5 75. Frankly kg3 Ke5 76. Kf3 f4 77. Kf2 Kf5
0-1

The Centurion is not quite that strong. A match between the Star Diamond and the Saitek President (same program as Centurion) famously ended with a 5-0 for the Novag..
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Narada
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re:Saitek Mephisto any good at $50 - 2006/10/29 21:02 Thanks for the nice post. A common misconception that exists from the the USCF inflation days is that SSDF+250==USCF. That is simply not true. Today, it more like SSDF==USCF and at the high end, it's probably SSDF-100=USCF..
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