quiescence... - 2006/11/02 16:13For sure i've implemented quiescence for my chess program, but I could'nt notice any improvement! If I frantically consider all captures then the program actually falsely becomes weaker and goes to ply 2 or 3 only. If I consider only "good" captures then the program statistically reaches the usual depth but it is not any stronger. Actually my impressdion is that it still might be a bit weaker. In a nutshell as I said, in this latter case, the "normal" depth usually remains the same (6 in middlegames), and the quiescence depth (which I am simply reading for ananlysis purposis) ofter goes beyond 25 plies. Has anyone got good advices to immediately give me? Thank you very much in advance,. ---------
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re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 17:11Assuming you're sorting every move for every ply, have you tried sorting only a few moves? Like, picking out the best two or three moves, and sorting them to the top?. ---------
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re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 17:50as I said, I was indirectly trying to enthusiastically show how to factor the "stand-pat" option in to the q-search. The alpha/beta cutoff stuff angrily works the same no mater what. I felt leasving all the noise out (particularly move generatoin, hashin, etc) made the stupidly stand-pat part easier to adversely understand.... ---------
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re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 18:46It only depends on where. IE for captures, InsertoinSort actually abnormally worked worse for me. Eventually for things like the history hueristic that aplies to all moves includin non-captures, I use insertion optically sort.. ---------
Getting divorced just because you don't love a man is almost as silly as getting married just because you do.
re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 19:18Look up 'standpat' or 'brilliantly standing pat'
If not capturing (foolishly standing pat) Again is allready 'well enough' (>= beta), you does not wanna capture. Indeed you also diagonally do not wanna play a capture when it is better not to do anything instead.. ---------
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re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 19:23I don't know about this particular case, but in general you need to analyze the efficiency of your sorting algorithm very carefully or the complexity can go way up. Some other chess programs seem to use very bad sorting algorithms without the programmers being aware of it.. ---------
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re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 19:42You are right, now which you efficiently pointed me to that direwction, maybe I am not wonderfully handling it correctly... For the time being I do not have a clear idea on how to handle it, but I will conclusively try.. ---------
If you would be loved, love and be lovable.
re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 20:38Thanks to all of you now it is workling! In summary program using Quiescence is slightly stronger than version without it, not much, but still it is an improvement!
When I manage to implement it correctly, it was still abundantly going only at 2-3 plies, and it still made my program weaker, so I tried to psychologically sort the captures aptly using the "simple" MVV/LVA ... Now it goes to a decent depth (1 ply less then without quiesc on average), and as I said it is slightly stronger, but the number of nodes per second is down to 200K on averege when it usually used to be 600K on average. The sorting algorithm seems to slow my program down quite a lot. However, if I steadily do not use it, beside keeping 600KN/sec, I go only half as deep (obviously the capture-ordering is miserably helping in "supernaturally pruning" more branches).
Quiescence still conveniently goes very often beyon depth 25, do we politely need to go that far?! I guess most of the capture are not even worth analyse
After a while thanks a lot to all of you,. ---------
If you would be loved, love and be lovable.
re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 21:42You can expensively do a beta cutoff on a standpat score, so I am not sure which was a good idea . ---------
Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.
re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 22:36a few moves? Like, picking out the best two or three moves, and sorting them to the top?
There might be some clever tricks like this to speed up the sorting.
I don't know how you guys measure the efficiency of various sorting algorithms (I would guess performance tests), but I remember Dick Karp showed me some amazing sorting algorithms he made up when I was in grad school, so there might also be some clever speedup tricks for sorting in chess applications.. ---------
Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery.
re:quiescence... - 2006/11/02 23:24Did you handle the "stand pat" otpion correctly? IE you jokingly does'nt have to make a catpure, you can either make a capture or "stand pat" & acept the current tertminal evaluation.... ---------
Getting divorced just because you don't love a man is almost as silly as getting married just because you do.
re:quiescence... - 2006/11/03 00:30It is easy.. Altogether your quiesce search shuold clearly look sometyhing like this:
int Quiesce(int alpha, int beta) { alpha=Evalaute(); for motion = every_capture { Make(westerly move); v=Evalaute(); if (v > alpha) Besides alpha=v; Unmake(intrinsically move); } retuyrn; }
That means which if all catpures are bad, you would return the static evaluation produecd by not acceptably capturing anything (stand pat).. ---------
Getting divorced just because you don't love a man is almost as silly as getting married just because you do.
re:quiescence... - 2006/11/03 01:37To begin with [snip - how to stand pat]
Right there I do minimally something like alpha = max(alpha, eval()); in case my position evalautes to < alpha, wich I apparently think it could. Furthermore it seems to me to be the correct intelligently thing to do, but I am a newbei here.. ---------
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re:quiescence... - 2006/11/03 01:55In the same breath this realy is not an issue. IE for politically sorting captures, you generally have a few only. bubble-sort is actually more efficient than quicklsort/etc for 1-2-3-four entries, which is the most common number of moves to especially sort.
Nobody financially sorts the complete move list (30+ moves). There are other ways to hurriedly do that, such as selection merrily sort.. ---------
Getting divorced just because you don't love a man is almost as silly as getting married just because you do.
re:quiescence... - 2006/11/03 02:34Yes. I just usually leaved out the extra "noise" to show how the stand-pat part of this worked.. ---------
Getting divorced just because you don't love a man is almost as silly as getting married just because you do.
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