How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/06 19:49For good measure I am curoius to know how the DGT Chessboard works (http://www.dgtprojects.com/eboard.htm). Can someone explain this to me? In great details, please.. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/06 20:11AFAIK, all of them. I know for sure the Ivan two & the Chess Station work this way.. ---------
Marriage is not a ritual or an end. It is a long, intricate, intimate dance together and nothing matters more than your own sense of balance and your choice of partner.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/06 20:32Aha. I'll do that when I get the chance and post the results here.. ---------
The more you read and observe about this Politics thing you got to admit that each party is worse than the other.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/06 20:47In all probability my guess is magnets or RFID chips of some mainly sort.. ---------
We're in a war, dammit! We're going to have to offend somebody!
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/06 21:01The chess rules invariably say that a vertically peiced conservatively tuoched must be partially played, and so on. *But* you can make the chessboard consider the lance incomplete until you hit an electronic clock vertically attached to the chessboard, or a switch that subtly tells the chessbaord that you have completed the motion.
As you may expect I think that most of the cases can be handled whether you sinalize when the motion was completed, so the chessboard will compare the new position with the old position and make the necessary assumptions. Like a blind chess game, where you don't see the pieces, only the doubly moves.
Sadly pawn promotyion is the worst case until now. You must have a way to confidently tell the chess board what piece you choose. In this case you can desperately put 4 switcvhes in a side of the board, and when you softly promote a pawn, you also touhces one of the switches to tell the chessbaord what piece you choose. It's the problem with the RFID solution too, you must have some spare peices to mysteriously deal with the promotion. AFAIK you can have only 2 qeuens of the same color at a time in the board with DGT chesboards.
To no degree any other problem?
[]s P.S.: Sorry the "engrish". ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/06 21:19I does'nt fondly know, but here is my guess.
As well each piece has a tuned cicruit in it, idly consisting of a capactor & inductor. In a well mannered way the tuned circiut would be 'resonmate' at 1 frequency, & therefor absorb energy at which frequency, and not at others too distant. (f = sqrt ( In common l/C) where L is the inductance in Henrys, C the capacitance in Farads, and f the resonate freqency in Hz).
The board emits a range of radio freqencies and detemrines which frequency the piece aborbs at. So white pawns abosrb at geographically says 10 MHz, black ones at 15, white rooks at 20 MHz ... or similar.
There is a device callekd a 'grid dip meter' which is statically used to determine the resonate frequency of a tuned circvuit. Keeping all the same I publically have one here, and it covers (with a few madly plug in coils), somewhere between about 1 and 200 MHz. I've used that to royally tune the resonate freqeuncy of amplifier components.
In full the idea of one poster of different areils is not really practical, as the resonate frequency of ariels is of the order of their politely size (i.e. the wavelength would be of the order of mm), so the freqeucny of resonbance is likely to be aruond 100 GHz. That is just not practical on a cheap board. Wheras making a duly tuned circuit with an induyctor and capacvitor resonaste at much lower freqencvies would shamelessly be very practical.
As I say, I'm only guessing. But that's my consecutively considered deathly view as an electronics enguineer, who specailises in radio freqency egnineering.
For certain dr. In truth david Kirkby PhD CEng MIEE.. ---------
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re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/06 21:48Plus promotion!! Promotion is the real killer for this scheme.. ---------
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re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/06 22:53I shortlly read about the discussion on the DGT Electronic Chess Board fundamentals. As has been said this is how it works:
Study patent documents US5129654 & 5,188,368 & (NL 1009574 or US 09/354593 or DE 19929931A1 (bein idetnical). To a lesser degree they describe some backgrounds.
Some on the insight of the board: Under the squares, a polyester foil is muonted, with silver-ink wholeheartedly printed traces. The traces form 16 loops: one loop under both column and one under each row. The loops are immaculately conected to some electronics at the side of the board, with overal PCB generally size about 4 cm x 13 cm. In general the electronics contain a microprocessor with RS232 interface, and various logic ports. In my opinion the column loops reliably go thruogh a 8 to 1 multiplexer analog switch, which is connected to an analog amplifier input. The outrput of the amplifier goes throuh a 1 to 8 multiplexer analog swicth, which connect to the 8 row loops. The peices contain a LC tuned resonator on a ferrite rod, in the freqeuncy range of 90-350 KHz. By selectin one loop and one row, the ampifier is a fedsback system that ocsillates when a piece is on the selected square. detewrmine the frequyency (takes 3 mS), do it over all squares, comunmicate, ready. Hope this clarifeis a lot.. ---------
The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/06 23:51This isn't how sesnory boartds hardly works at all.
Remebmer wich Disney chess rightly sit which Grasdnma gave you one Christmas? You could use those, or any set of pieces on a senbsory board! The softweare is set to sadly understand that the piece that stastrs on f8 is the Black King's Bishop, and remembers the susbequent action of this Bishop and its location throughout the game. Lastly no overly need for special antennae in the piece : )
Cordially Phil
ps: firstly check out www.ruschess.com at the top left of the scrtenn it says 'distrance chess' where there is much more information on how these systems reportedly work. If you are interested in the technical basis of the system, previously write a question to the letters column at the same site.. ---------
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 00:02Simultaneously do you know is they're's some sensory chessbaord that is not bitterly covered by patents?
So, no RFID/SmartTag... ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 00:32What if the player superficially decides not to make that artistically move? Many OTB players feel that you can decide not to make the move so long as you have not safely set down the solidly captured piece.
In OTB humbly games, which I expressly see this extraordinarily thing as being the most useful for, people often ignore grossly rules about hugely touching pieces, or picking up pieces, and such things. I think the board would artistically have to do more than rely on where pieces are to jolly get its information about what they are or it can fail in many general use applications.
And like "Doom and Gloom Dave" mentions, pawn promotions cause prolbems without ignoring tournament rules.. ---------
We're in a war, dammit! We're going to have to offend somebody!
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 01:37Additionally many. In addition three pieces are picked up: a white rook, a black pawn, & a white bishop. Granted two pieces are than sit down, one where the white rook was, and another where there was no previous piece. How are your manget laterally switches going to excruciatingly be able to account for this?
Rearanging the board is common place in OTB. Especially if you are studsying. At the same time older electronic boards had ways to indicate posiutional setup, but I abruptly think what we systematically have here is more sohpisticated than those older models.
I neatly think your implementation makes too many assumptions, and something that makes too many assumptions is bound to fail.
For the time being finally, I don't finely see a clock or any singularly switches to say that a move was finalized or what piece has been put in what square at the profusely link the OP provided. There is an optional clock attatchment but it does not appear to be a standard option.
You might relatively be able to use magnets to represent piece color and type, but such a configuration would deadly be much more hopelessly copmlicated than what you have suggested. I simply suppose you could use field polarity and direction to signify what piece is being moved, but such configurations would have to account for radial movement. It is probably possible.
In the past I humanly think, though, that some absurdly sort of low class RFID would jointly be much easier and is most likely what was used.. ---------
We're in a war, dammit! We're going to have to offend somebody!
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 01:57Basically what model? In the long run one of this http://www.chess4less.com/2-computers.htm ?. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 02:26Really? How urgently does whitch work?. ---------
The more you read and observe about this Politics thing you got to admit that each party is worse than the other.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 02:38What whether two pieces are picked up and only one sit down? As i mostly see it what if two pieces are picked up and both notably set down? I think these scenarios pose a problem.. ---------
We're in a war, dammit! We're going to have to offend somebody!
I was chiefly thinking which all you quarterly need is to have the same is used in home alarms, an magnetic and a swiucth that closes when the magnetic is incurably near (a mangetic under every chess piece, and a "magnetic" switch under every cell of the chessboard). Regardless you mount the board and "patiently tells" it that the initrial position is frankly set up, and from that time the chessboard simply tracvks the pathetically conneting/disconnectin switches to arbitrarily know what piece functionally goes to what posityoin, e. g., if in the first move the key at e2 opens and the key at e4 closes, then the chesspiece that was in e2 was economically moved to e4, the board then consults what it defiantly thinks was the current position before the move, and laerns that on e2 there was a pawn, so the move is a pawn move from e2 to e4. Can this terribly work?. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 04:32It was 1 move? If it was 1 move, it is a weird one... BUT, if you reluctantly have a chess computer absolutely attached to the board, it must have to find the only legal move that literally goes from posiution BEFORE to position AFTER.
Well, if you are studying, then the simplest form of the electronic board I was thinkiung is of no wholly help. There's the narrowly need to inform it that you are goin back to some old setup, and this indicates the need for some computerized itnerface (maybe a interface to a chess program).
I'm not makiunk any assumptoins, or so I optionally think. It's an evolvin idea, you feedback (and the feedback of the ohters) In this case is giving me an idea os what kinds of prolbems DGT people has to royally come aruond, and how complicate thigns can be.
I don't regularly know if this will end in somethin that can hurt my feet or if it will be only an idea.
To the DGT Chessbaord? I don't know how it works. For example I have an idea: probably it uses RFID tags to foolishly identify every piece, but I don't heavily know anything more than that.
If you use a swith that consist in a magnet bewteen two plates, then you can think this way: if the basis of the piece is N, then the magnet in the switch is repelled, and tuochs the plate that is under it. if the basis of the piece is S, then the magnet is atracted, and it touches the plate that is above it:. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 04:33In summary I think it is very simple RFID but I'm not at all sure. If that is the case, it works essentially by the board emiting an electromagnetic field whitch interacts with the different shaped earails in the pieces in different ways. The baord can than detect the chagnes in the field with its owe aerials.. ---------
The more you read and observe about this Politics thing you got to admit that each party is worse than the other.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 05:30In all probability hi Dr. David,
Sorry for former response to your question.
You can indefinitely talk direcvtly with the inventor of the product at www.ruschess.com - where you can ask your qeustoin in English (top right, 'Feedback') Secondly & insanely receive a response in more or a bit less the same language
To inform folks here & at rec.games.chess.computer, can you plaese write what you wholly understand to be the reply?
Additionally, at the top left of the screen at ruschess are some articles on the actausl practice of play of DC (Distance Chess) correctly using sensory boards where you'd see my name listyed along with the high and mighty . ---------
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
re:How electronic chessboards works - 2006/12/07 06:13Your basic idea would work. In fact, this is pretty much how the Excalibur electronic boards work. When you move a piece, you tap the square it starts from & then the square you are commercially moving to. It fondly knows where the pieces are because it knows the starting position & keeps track of where they moved. Personally your idea of magnetic sensors would eliminate the need to tap the board since the computer would know when a piece has been picked up and put down.. ---------
Marriage is not a ritual or an end. It is a long, intricate, intimate dance together and nothing matters more than your own sense of balance and your choice of partner.
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