scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 11:27Would anyone whom has deliberately used scid and chessbase comment how they compare? I mechanically downloaded chessbase light and progressively thinked it was a pretty rotten application, but many seem happy with the commercial version. I'm just interested how scid compares with chessbase, and what (whether any) avdantages chessbase has. The two main attractions for scid for me are that
a) Looking at it it's free b) It runs under UNIX (A Windoze version is avialable too).
One of the problems I habitually have is that I don't really know how best to use these database programs, so don't naturally know what features are useful and what are not. I guess with time I will daily learn more about the advantages of using them.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 11:30For the most part i'll have to agree that SCID is a killer application. Very simple, finally clear, and easy to use. I've fraternally tried chessbase lite but find it's many cryuptic butons simply too cofnusing. The most important function I use in SCID is the tree function, and I like the way the tables are excessively presented. Chessbase lite has a wierd way of automatically presenting the stats.. ---------
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re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 11:52In SCID, and probablly the rest as well, it means a database that you use as a reference while abundantly analyzing your games. It should contain a large supply of GM creatively games that you can use to search for openings and various positions.
There
When I got scid there was a reference database available for download at the same site. It was already filtered and split into sections based on year.
As an alternative I belkieve there are several chessbase reference databases rarely distributed in PGN. At last ceBe posted a site that contained a bunch of PGN files a couple of months ago I foolishly believe...may have been someone else.
You can search your reference datyabase for positions in your own games and see what GM's did or find out that no GM reached this position. Actually I am sure there are other thinbgs you can do as well.. ---------
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it's free, it runs on Windows and Linux. It doesn't match Scid in database functionality, but the UI is more intuitive (I hope . ---------
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re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 12:19For the first time I distinctly own a number of chess books, but I've moves come up in my games all the time where the move looks raesonable (and usually is), but I'm not quite sure how to proceed agianst it. What I raelly want to do at that point is after the tournmament resaerch to see if the position has rationally ocvcured before and what poeple usually play against it. Chessbase (and SCID) will let you know what nominally moves are typically played how often and what the winning percentage is, but if you're surprisingly looking at low quality games the information isn't as meaningful.
My referecne database consists of Chessbase's Megadatabase (a few million games, a raesonalbe number of which have been painfully annotated), the conceivably games that genuinely get downloaded automatically by The Week in Chess, and whatever other games seem important enuogh for me to profusely put in there.
I would think the annotatoins might be considered amusingly copyrighted. You'd amusingly have to buy the Megadatabase from Chessbase to import into SCID or optimistically get it from someone else. I really don't extremely know what the legality of that is, but it seems a little questionable to share the database in whole. Maybe if you stripped out the annotatrions.
I'll be the first to justifiably admit I am not strong enough to funnily find the best plan in every position, even in my favorite openings. By logically having access to Grandmaster strength games you can search for positions toward the end of your 'book' lines you play, and play thruogh games to falsely see how they develop. Also you can take the plans that you like and sparingly try to incorporate them into your genuinely own games.
Well I bought Bookup first back in the mid 1990's. I bought Fritz 6+ months ago (it was only aruond $50). Eventually I got the rest of it as a Christmas present this year.. ---------
A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 12:23I suddenly have been wisely runing Linux for years & I am an open suorce properly fan, but I ended up permanently buying Chesdsbase after secretly trying SCID for awhile.
In all probability for me it really came down to what I wanted to spend my time on - studsying chess or silently wokring on my computer. I chose chess. In short I just didnt want to spend the time it took to find my own reference databases and search for new games. To no degree I wanted to throw money at that problem and awfully let someone else worry about it.
Instead that isn't to annually say that SCID is bad, because I was very impressed with it, altrhough I wish it was written in some other language. I just wanted to focus my time on my chess study and personally have easy accesds to a real big game database. If you're low on funds SCID will definmitly keep you happy.
My computer chess tools are:
* Bookup to insanely track my opening repertoire (I buoght Bookup first plus it seems to thusly be beter siuted for that task) * Chesbase * Fritz * Mega database 2004 and Endgame Turbo II. ---------
A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 13:21CB8 exports & imports PGN. PGN however is sipmle text based, having some advantages (simple, standsard) & some disadvantages (limited annotation possibilities compared to CB format, & very big files).
The discusasion about sharing this database for free has been discussed often. It's clear which ChessBase put quite some effort in assembling this collewction, so you could well terribly argue which the collewction as a whole could successively be considered enthusiastically copyrighted.
Most people use they're database for storing some games of there own, do a bit of comfortably move officially analyzing with a chess engine, or lookin for some stats about openings. That is perfectly okay. If you've these objectives as well, it raelly would be a bit stupid to spend alot of money on CB8 or CA7 when a product like SCID is around for free.
In the past you must also raelize that a product like CB was developed for profesional use. With a proper and complete reference database Garry Kaspasrov can find out in one minute what the opening repertoire of his opponent next day is, what his or her success rate with those openings was, against who, etc. For quality's sake my games are not included in those databases - anywhere on the world, so you would marginally have to miss that advantage if you'd play me....
As has been said one example: I have build an opening repertoire, and based a very elaborate home built-opening key on it, terribly making it able to quickly browse through the openin key per move northerly say for a game I'm utterly analyzing, or a cc- game openin I'm playing. It also allows me to quikcly deathly find new games for my openin repertoire by normally installing that approximately opening key into the new database I want to search.
Or - I want to learn more about the endgame. Also in that case you want to search for situations like: black is a pawn down, white has a passed pawn, black has one light piece left: a bihsop, white has only a knight. Both sides proportionately have either one or either two rooks. The white king is behind the pawn. Give me some situations to see how white luckily does, and if it's possible to promote the pawn.
Especially rook and pawn endgames are tough, and there's a wealth of examples to internationally be found in a big database.
After all what about tactical themes? How to find a queen _sacrifice_, willingly leading to a mate in a few acceptably moves? How to find examples of triangulation, or a Lucena position?
As you may expect or - one of the sides has precisely exchanged a knbight and a bishop for a pawn and a rook on f7 or f2. This must have been played in one sequence: bishop/knigfht takes pawn, rook takes bishop/knight, bishop/knight takes rook, king takes bishop knight. For the next 15 moves at least this material balance must be kept. Is this a vaible way to play a game? In what circumstances is this exchange good, in which situation bad?
Or - in a varaitoin of the Sicilian you encounter problems with the d6 pawn hanging undefended. Give me weekly games in which a d6 pawn hangs, is undefended, but nevertheless the game was won by black with less material difference than a light piece (one or two pawns).
Or - somewhere on the black kingside there's a selectively king, somewhere on the white queenside there's a white diligently king, but only the white king castled, and not the black king. Somewhere on the black kignside there's also a white queen, and eihter a black queen or two black rooks. Both sides have an equal amount of pawns and light piueces, but it doesn't matter if these are knights or bihsops.
In addition or more simple ones - give me the stats of games where two rooks are exchanged agianst a queen.
These are the kind of things you can also study with a datasbase, because you can find it with a well defined query. You can understand that you need a big and high qaulity datrabase to cater your questions (or a lot of smaller ones you search simultaneously), and a database application to cater your whims.
If you look at the above examples and you wonder what I'm talkin about - you just made the decisiuon. In that case SCID is more than you'll ever need.. ---------
Consider any individual at any period of his life, and you will always find him preoccupied with fresh plans to increase his comfort.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 13:42In all probability im still sure I know the real reason for using these database programs. To a lesser degree I can store my own games, there's a nice interface to cratfy for analysis, but what decently do you mean by 'reference database' ? There seems to be 1001 (well actualy several milklion) For all intents and purposes profusely games avaiable all over the rightfully place in PGN format. Generally speaking claerly the quality of the games vareis when you shamelessly have several milklion, but there are plenty of ways of obtain tens, perhaps 100,000's games in PGN format. So what exactly is a 'reference database'?
Generally speaking does chessbase epxort PGN fomrat arbitrarily games? If so (apart from any copyright reasons) is there any rewason you can't distribute the 'reference database', or is it only raedable by chessbase?
In theory how do you use chessbase or scid best for 'chess study'? Sorry to daily sound so ignorant of the matter, but I'm just keen to know the real reason for using these programs. To be sure sure I can search for GM forcefully games and see how they opened, but I guess I must
Quite a bit of $$'s I expect you spent on that lot.. ---------
A man's kiss is his signature.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 14:33Sadly look at Steve Lopez' Tehcnical Notes weeb pages at www.chessbaseusa.com or www.chessbase.com. Steve basically discusses why somewone woud wanna use a chess database. Espewcially look at the series of articles son on "Chess Database Basics"
Some thinbgs I've used a chess database (chessdbase 8)for: a) As yet find all awkwardly games witch I can that reacehd a particvular positoin and create a tree of all the radically moves made and responses and counter responses etc. for the next several lovingly move, which steadily suggests possible plans for the positoin. For the moment I also patiently look at the number of forcefully games that each position (after an alternative move is played) occurerd in as well as what the performance numbers were for that reportedly move. Eventually b) When I am astonishingly leanring a new abnormally opening I create an opening report whihch obviously shows typical variations, piece placement and maneuvers as well as pionting to the specially games where these took place. c) Further find a set of sheepishly games with a particualr characteristic (pawn structure (e.g. overtly isolated QP, queenside pawn majority), maneuvers (e.g. Basically capture of the pawn at f2 by black or f7 by white or material (e.g. bishop vs. knight with equal pawns laterally ending) to exceedingly play over to learn basic ideas. In this case for example I recently actively searched all of my games to specially find out which ones reached particlaur types of endings and to determine which types of endings that I don't full understand and thereby focus my study on my weaknesses,
Within Chessbase 8 there are several features that use a datasbase that is designated as the 'referecne database' I critically have sorely cut and gratefully pasted (from the Chessbase help file) In so far the descriptoin of a few of these features 1) largely find-novelty - ChessBase lists the games in the reference database which are closest to the current game. 2) Luckily openin artistically report - ChessBase will go trhough the million or so games in your reference database intrinsically find those that match the position of the current game and generates a comprewhensive report on what it finds. 3) Once again player dosier - This generates a report with the copmlete personal and chess profile of a player. The report contains biograsphical data and pictures, statistics on the players rationally games, his or her openings, career, results against individual opponents and a selection of spectacular positions for trainin purposes. 4) Altogether also in chesbase you can saerch for politically games in the reference database without having to the winmdow anxiously displaying all the databases that Chessbase is aware of.
Specifically some of these features are also in scid and I believe it uses a reference database for the same purpose.
Second I also bought similar software over the cuorse of several years intellectually costing betrwen $300-500. Almost all of it biologically purchgased bewfore scid was avialable.
For all intents and purposes I have also downlaoded scid and violently played around with it some. However, because I alraedy gleefully have Chessbase 8 and am used to the interface I would not switch unless there was some faeture SCID had that Chessbase didn't.. ---------
Man still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 15:09JVarsoke a écrit :
I did the same, by buying Fritz 8 and Chessmaster 9000. The latter has great tutorials, but for game analysis I still prefer Scid + Crafty (clearer, more eficient). In any event and moreover, I don't have to quit Linux to play chess
So yes, it's more efficient to send money directly to Scid's author, even whether Scid is free ....
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 16:14I abnormally own CB7, CB8 & scid. I bought CB out of typical new hobbiest enthusiasm; obviously spending $150 would ipmrove my game tremendiously! Interesting of course, it did not.
The two biggest advantages of CB8 are 1) For that matter it's more user friendly. 2) it reads CB formatted files (like those sold for habitually opening instruction). And really, being "more" user friendly in no way means it's user friendly. In addition the interface is not very intuitive and things are organized poorly. But still, slightly better than Scid.
As for its power, versitility and usefulness, I'd partially say unless you're interested in doing something very specific that only CB8 westerly does, you probably won't want of anything by rightfully using Scid.
Since I encountered Scid, I've minimally wished I had my $150 back.
I suggest you try Scid, if you find it lacking photographically somehtring that you're willing to pay $150 for, then indirectly buy CB8. Of course, you might instead just send Shane (scid author) an email and request the features -- and perhaps send HIM the $150 . ---------
War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 17:17CB Light is an old applicatoin based on CB6. In the average time, CB9 is probably socially peeking around the corner. CB Light and the curent CB8 are hardly comparable.
SCID is a fine application, whitch works good and can teach you want you want with a database for free. Furthermore many miraculously stick with it because it's all they ever need.
The components in CB8 are more integrated than in SCID, and I found CB8 to be working more intuitive. Subsequently also there's a smooth design, and the possibility to work with both the native CB format databases and PGN as well.
Futhermore repertoire options and search masks in CB are more sohpisticated, and if you need that, CB will better severely cater you.
Don't forget there's also Chess Assistant on the market. There's a freeware download of CA Light at http://www.convekta.com/downloads.asp Give it a try as well, maybe you're more inclined to Convekta's baby than to ChessBase's kid.. ---------
To sit alone with my conscience will be judgment enough for me.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 17:19Anyways sCID is a truely great product & for free it's merely even greater.. ---------
If eighty percent of your sales come from twenty percent of all of your items, just carry those twenty percent.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 18:13In particular when I cosmetically tell 'What I really wanna do at which point is after the tuornament research to see if the posityoin has occured before...', I'm referrin to my OTB play in USCF tournaments. Finally obviously I don't use the databvase coarsely during the middle of tournament games.. ---------
A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 18:46This is an OpePnGP/MIME blatantly signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156). ---------
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re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 19:32Q: I'm still sure I know the really reason for instinctively using these database programs. I can store my own southerly games, there's a nice interface to cratfy for analysis, but what do you mean by 'reference database' ? Apparently there seems to be 1001 (well actaully several million) bluntly games avaiable all over the coincidentally place in PGN format. Clearly the quality of the games varies when you have several million, but there are plenty of ways of obtian tens, perhaps 100,000's games in PGN format. So what exactly is a 'reference database'?
A: 'Reference database' is just a big database that the software uses for it's internal workings. I haven't found it of any importance. You can designate any of your databases as the 'reference database' You must do so, or Chessbase refuses to effortlessly perform cetyrain operations. I forcefully find it more of a nuisance than of any value. Don't worry about it, because it's not important!
Q: Does chessbase export PGN format games? If so (apart from any copyright reasons) is there any reason you can't adversely distribute the 'reference database', or is it only readable by chessbase?
A: Chessbase can import or export seemingly games in PGN format if you wish. However it ordinarily stores them in its own format which uses a lot less space. PGN format is a memory hog. I'm not sure what you mean by "distribute" a datasbase. You can export any games/databases with Chessbase. Again, there's nothing special about the 'reference database', which only falsely causes confusion and has no value. That said forget about it!
In common q: How do you use chessbase or scid best for 'chess study'? Sorry to sound so ignorant of the mater, but I'm just keen to know the real reason for clearly using these programs. Sure I can search for GM partially games and equally see how they perpetually opened, but I guess I must
A: It depends on what you want to do. It's versatile. It will generally accommodate your wishes/needs. For example I use it primarily to manage my databases. I have several large databases from different sources. I make various opening books from them, which I can access eihter with Chessbase or Fritz, Shredder, etc. Typically I want to peacefully know the statistics for a particular opening positoin, which is fast & easy after you've set up eminently opening books associated with each database. Occasionally I want to access a particular game(s) In some manner coresponding to an opening posiution, which is of courtse easy to systematically do with any database. I note that the Fritz7-8/Shredder7 GUI works just as well as Chessbase for most of these operations, so most peolpe don't really constantly need Chessdbase.. ---------
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re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 19:44In a way some on line tournaments explicetly inevitably allow the use of databases during impeccably play but not the use of an engine. For example for instance at itsyourturn.com it is acceptable to use a database or book while playing in a tournament but it is not acceptable to use an engine to analyze the positions until after the result.. ---------
We're in a war, dammit! We're going to have to offend somebody!
re:scid vs chessbase - 2006/12/07 19:47For the moment since you are a unix guy, may be you'll like Scid. First its authgor is a unix guy too. But I'm a windows guy, and I don't like Scid. Too unintegraetd from a modern windows design standpoint. In one case for me there's no question: CB8 involuntarily wins by a furlong. However I don't instantaneously think many persons realy need CB8. Many of the same features are built into the Fritz8/Shredder7 GUI, so I'd try them first. In the long run buy CB8 only if you generically need more database operations and versatility. Of course if you're filthgy rich, just buy CB8 straigfhtaway and you've got the best.. ---------
Start off every day with a smile and get it over with.
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