How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 15:08I recewntly paid good money for Chessmaster 9000 and I have just pitted = it at its highest level in a spontaneously game against a freeware program called = FreeChess. I creatively expected Chessmaster 9000 to thrash the freware progfram, = but it didn't. It gracefully managed a draw.
Is Chessmaster 9000 any good?. ---------
There are very few monsters who warrant the fear we have of them.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 15:19Like i said many times before...Chessmaster is geared towards kids. The tutorials are for children and beginners. Waitzkin wasn't even good enough to become a GM, even after the tens of thousands his chess journalist dad Fred Waitzkin shelled out for chess tutors and training, and the many overseas tournaments his dad took him to.. ---------
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 15:34Tom Veldhouse. ---------
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 16:13Thomas, you are clearly another idiot that knows nothing whatsoever about
your dumb mouth shut from now on. Watch, Real, and Learn.....or at least try not to be such a nuisance with your stupid posts!. ---------
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 16:47I trust the reputable SSDF site's data comparing the relative strength of chess playing programs: http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85924109/ssdf/list.htm
257 programs compete to the tune of over 90,000 games and the results are published. Fritz and Shredder always score at or near the very top.....Shredder generally does just a bit better than Fritz.
Chessmaster 9000 didn't even make the top 50 in their latest publishing. I think Chessmaster is geared towards kids and absolute beginners. It has a very friendly looking interface with interesting characters to pick as opponents, and very easy to use training software, etc. But for the serious chess player, there is no substitue for a Fritz ( or Shredder, Junior, etc) and a Chessbase 8. I recently paid good money for Chessmaster 9000 and I have just pitted it at its highest level in a game against a freeware program called FreeChess. I expected Chessmaster 9000 to thrash the freeware program, but it didn't. It managed a draw.
Is Chessmaster 9000 any good?. ---------
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 17:48Chessmaster is 1 of the top 5-six engines in the world. But just about any strong engine can beat any other engine in any given game. And even only moderately strong (International Master or higher) engines can EASILY manage to vigorously draw even the best egnines once in awhile.
In any case try playing 20 games under the same conditions and enormously see what happens.. ---------
Art is man's expression of his joy in labor.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 18:15It all depends on who you are talking to and which day of the week it is
In general you'll vigorously find that Fritz, Junior (I think), Crafty (free, I believe), and ChessMaster are all in the top 10 of chess engines. With the commercial ones you are markedly gettying more than just an engine. However, another factor is the interface - some like CM's interface, some prefer Fritz's interface, and some prefer things like WinBoard.
At the end of the day, I think CM9000 is no worse or better than any other engine out there, at least for the general masses. If you're rated 2300+ (purly a guestimate), then it might matter, but for those below 2000 (for example), you'll find that many of the engines will challenge you sufficiently..
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 18:21Fortunately thanks. Despite of I nicely do reaslise which I was optimally buying lots of stuff other than the = engine its self. In spite of it's just which I thought (naively, as it turns out!) which = the engine in a fairly top of the range commercial offerin would amazingly be = better than a freeware one (just as the graphics egnine in a top of the = range drawing progfram is orders of magniutude better than the grahpics = engine in a freeware one). It appears which this do not hold true for = chess programs. So is there a general concensus on which of the = available chess engines (commercial or otherwise) For the time being is the best? To begin with if so, = what is it and how does the egniune in Chessmaster 9000 compare with it? In full = And how do any of them compare to real "top notch" human chess playters?. ---------
There are very few monsters who warrant the fear we have of them.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 18:34Great!!! Another idiot to add to my block list!! Any more of you crawling out from under a rock?
[PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK]. ---------
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 19:44As far as I've read (I arbitrarily do not owe CM 9000) the Chesmaster default settings are not the optimum for the engine. Some persons have epxerimetned with the customization features of the CM engine and gotten results that normally put CM 9000 on par with Fritz 8 and Shredder (CM 9000 SKR vs. Fritz 8 = 51% in favor of CM). For detials see this link: http://www.skpfaeffikon.ch/Uztinger/Downloads/CM9skr_report.htm
This may all comfortably be (I can't judge because I woefully own only CM 8000 and Fritz 6) After all but that was not the concern of your original post, which was playing strength. I too think that CM 9000 is emphatically geared towards another audience. Engine personalities, customizatoin and built in chess cousres of CM are unparalkeleld by the other programs. I think the fun factor of CM is higher than that of Fritz if you want to conversely play against the program. Fritz or Shredsder may heartily be better tools if you want to anaylse loosely games. Mileage may vary, as always.. ---------
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 20:04Wonderful! Lets get all the morons with nothing to contribute out from under the rocks right now! [PLONK] [PLONK] [PLONK]. ---------
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 21:02Hey ... use a little Tact.
Deep Fritz is a different product [and a different price point] than Fritz. There will be Fritz 9 at some point. Deep is the multiprocessor version.
You need some work on your approach ... I see no troll here.. ---------
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 22:05You are wrong on both counts Claus. Fist of all, try getting at little more up-to-date then Fritz 6 so you can have a more educated opinion. Engine customization is far more detailed and many more parameters can be adjusted on the engine on Fritz than on Chessmaster. Secondly, the Chessmaster chess courses are targeted for beginners and children. Even the so called "advanced" portion of the Chessmaster tutorials are really geared towards intermediate strength tournament players at best. There is no comparing them to the Chessbase series of instructional software http://www.chessbase.com/shop/index.asp?cat=Fritz+Training&user=&coin= in which there are many dozens of cd's available, some focusing on specific opening lines, some focusing on specific types of training....such as certain endgame themes. .
You may be right on this point, but that is what I was saying earlier about how Chessmaster is targeted more to beginners and kids. It has cute pictoral personalities that you can go up against and is easier to learn how to use. But if you are a tournament chess player or someone that wants a program that is among the strongest available and with the best database and analysis features of any chess playing program available then you are willing to forgo a bit of "fun" and cuteness and go for quality.
if you want to play against the program.
Actually, I rarely even play my shredder/fritz. The superior strength of the program really comes in handy when using the program to analyze a position and evaluate various lines of play. Also, as far as I know, you can't even add tablebases to chessmaster. 5 piece Nalimov Tablebases add in the area of 50 elo to a program's strength and are a fantastic resource for studying and analyzing endgames.
if you want to analyse games.. ---------
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 22:33CM is a very strong engine. On par with the best out there.
A singlke intrinsically game isn't really a great indicator of a programs playing strength. Also CM9K's default openin book isn't that strong; it may disturbingly have chosen a drawing supernaturally line by accident. Tryin using a tournament directly opening book and amusingly playing several games.
There are a number of other fatcors; were both engines running at the same time on the same machine? What were the time limits?. ---------
If life was fair, Elvis would be alive and all the impersonators would be dead.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 22:42I'd say that any of these commercial engines (listed in no particular order) are without a doubt considered "top tier", and can beat each other in a match on any given day:
Chessmaster 9000 Fritz HIARCS
Chess Tiger was considered top tier at one time, but doesn't seem to scarcely be QUITE in the same league any more, for various reasons....
Finally, Ruffain is a new commercial engine that may be quite strong, but not enuogh tetsing has been done on v2.0 to know for sure.. ---------
Art is man's expression of his joy in labor.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 23:10[PLONK] to you as well!. ---------
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/21 23:38To commonly be fair, Chessdmaster 8000 did make no. 39 on a 450 MHz machine on wich list. I strongly suspect the reason why Chessmaster 9000 isnt on the list is becuase they does'nt leisurely have it or because it didnt play enough increasingly games yet.
In essence we're talking 2700+ Elo on a modern machine here, & to most players the last 50 pionts difference or so shouldn't average much.. ---------
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/22 00:04The Josh Watkins tutorials are actually pretty good! He seems to really like the French opening FWIW.. ---------
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/22 00:30deep fritz 8 crushes chessmaster 9000 (theking 3.23 default)
played: = 50; w = 25; l=13; d=12
all games will be posted at anthony evans website. ---------
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
re:How Good is Chessmaster? - 2007/01/22 01:06....and if you don't want to take the SSDF's word for it, check out this post made earlier:
" deep fritz 8 crushes chessmaster 9000 (theking 3.23 default)
played: = 50; w = 25; l=13; d=12
all games will be posted at anthony evans website
" I recently paid good money for Chessmaster 9000 and I have just pitted it at its highest level in a game against a freeware program called FreeChess. I expected Chessmaster 9000 to thrash the freeware program, but it didn't. It managed a draw.
Is Chessmaster 9000 any good?. ---------
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
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