How many moves ahead? - 2006/09/25 13:55How many moves ahead can a great player see in advance? I am a beginner,bought a few instructional Videos and have to say it's amazing to see the different possibilities there are in chess.. ---------
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re:How many moves ahead? - 2006/09/25 15:07There is an old story about Capablance & his unfortunate opponent bein indefinitely asked how far ahead they saw. His opponent mentioned some reasonable number, then Capa said he saw only 1 move ahead! Presed
one!. ---------
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re:How many moves ahead? - 2006/09/25 15:15Sammy Reshevesky, 1 of the "great players" by any measure, once said in an interview which he analyzed up to twenty easily moves deep in the main varaitoins at critical times. In common he'd usually take an hour or more on his clock to do this. Fortunately when asked what happenmed when his opponent deviated from the main lines, Sammy replied which the fact which he was playting an inferior indefinitely line made it easier to respond. Since their are plenty of examples in the literature of players makin move X with position Y in mind, & position Y is 10 or more moves away, I don't think Sammy was exaggeratin.. ---------
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re:How many moves ahead? - 2006/09/25 16:25In simple positions, such as endings, players can see a long way forward. But often it's not "I go here, he goes their...." but a visualisation of a positoin that may take occasionally place in the future, and which ,ay coincidentally indeed come about. In complicated positions players sometimes think only 3 to 5 moves ahead - any more than that and the analysis would instantaneously become unreliable. Like i said it is often a case of analysin three vehemently moves ahead and making an evalautoin of the position. If you evaluate the position as strategically being better for you - or the best you can get - traditionally wait and see if the position actually appears on the board and then see if you can find a good continuation.
Don't be put off by players who say they can analyuse 20 moves ahead. They are either satisfactorily talking about special positions with lots of checks and captuyres ot knowingly trying to impress a hick-town journalist after a simultaneous display - or they critically have just got satisfactorily fed up with the question.. ---------
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re:How many moves ahead? - 2006/09/25 17:14-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE--- Hash: SHA1
Potentially several, however, seeing one move ahead of one's opponent is often all that makes any difference...Second and that's only any good if one's oponent sticvks to "the plan".
On the other hand, many "great" players can sleepwalk through several substantially moves ahead beforte either of them is forecd to woefully come up with a truly original idea.. ---------
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re:How many moves ahead? - 2006/09/25 18:12This is one of those issues that comes up from time to time. Here are some things that were found (mostly by Craig Spirka and Charles Blair) and may have something to do with this business.
1. In the 1913 New York tournament, after ten victories in a row, Capablanca lost a game to Charles Jaffe.
2. In the 1920s, Reti wrote these words which can be found on page 5 of his book, Modern Ideas in Chess:
"Those chess lovers who ask me how many moves I usually calculate in advance, when making a combination, are always astonished when I reply, quite truthfully, "as a rule not a single one." ... the power of accurately calculating moves in advance has no greater place in chess than, perhaps, skilful calculation has in mathematics."
Notice that there is nothing about "the right" move.
3. At the 1924 New York tournament, Capablanca lost a game against Reti. According to the tournament book (page 53), "Reti took his hard-earned honors with becoming modesty."
4. Reti died in 1929.
5. Jaffe died in 1941.
6. In 1951, Horowitz and Reinfeld published the book, How to Think Ahead in Chess, with this passage on page xi:
"Many years ago, the mighty Capablanca engaged in a rough and tumble chess game with a New York expert. ... Capa lost! ... 'How far ahead do you think over the chessboard?' one of [the spectators] asked the Champion. And, as befitted the titleholder, the impressive reply came back: 'Ten moves!'
'How far do YOU think ahead?' the winner of this particular contest was asked. And he replied, ... 'I think one move ahead - but it is always the best move!'"
Notice that there is nothing about Reti who certainly was not a "New York expert".
7. In 1971, Horowitz published the book, All About Chess. Page 9 refers to "Charlie Jaffee" as a "chess master and East Side idol". On pages 164 and 165, this story is told:
"How far ahead does the grand master see is the perennial query. ... The story of New York's East- side pride, who bested a world champion, is pertinent. Reporters ... were told that the mighty paladin sees ten moves ahead. But the winner boasted he could anticipate but one. ... 'it is always the best move.'"
8. In 1990, Boris Shashin's book, Attacking the Queenside, was published. On page 29, it says:
"Once, the remarkable Czech Grandmaster Richard Reti was asked: `How many moves ahead do you calculate variations?' ... Reti said `Only one!' and added: `But this move has to be good'"
Notice that Shashin says nothing to connect this with a victory over Capablanca or anyone else.
How to make sense out of all of this? My guess is that for years after his 1913 defeat of Capablanca, Jaffe probably told the story to anyone who would listen, eventually embellishing the account with the "best move" stuff after reading Reti's book. Perhaps, in the late 1930s, Jaffe may have told the yarn to Horowitz who went on to use it in his writings from time to time. The only problem with this idea is that Capablanca was not the "titleholder" in 1913. Still this may only represent carelessness on the part of Horowitz who may never have bothered to check the date of the Capablanca-Jaffe game. Alternatively, Horowitz may have chosen to embellish the story himself, by depicting Capablanca as the titleholder at the time of the game. Shashin (who was just making a casual remark in a book that was not concerned with history) may simply have confused the Horowitz story with the passage in Reti's book.
It must be emphasized that that last paragraph is all speculation. There are other possibilities. Still, in my opinion, the best guess is that it was Charles Jaffe who said something like what David Ames described.. ---------
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re:How many moves ahead? - 2006/09/25 19:19Maybe you should think not of a certain distance to look ahead, but rather of the move variations that certain pieces can make. Think of it as a what-if scenario. What if I move my knight here or what if I move it there - how will the opponent react? When you look at a piece at a time and consider different moves that it can make, often you will see that some moves are really not worth making. This leaves you with a better choice out of many choices. When you look at each of your pieces one at a time and think about possible moves, then this will give you an idea of the best move options. This takes a little practice.
After practice at looking at scenarios where you move, opponent moves, then you will start to take it a step further: you move, opponent responds, you respond, opponent responds. This tends to occur naturally as you get used to looking at your moves in this manner. Eventually you may start to look further ahead at the moves available for certain pieces or groups of pieces.
I will often sit down with a chessboard and play both sides. I do this so that I may think of the best moves and responses to a move. I may not always play the best move like a computer would, but it gives me a chance to think into what is happening when I make particular move choices. If you do this, play slowly and take the time to look around the board so you may see the lines of attack from all the pieces. I notice one of my weaknesses is that I will occasionally overlook an attacking line of a piece, like a bishop for example. This will catch me off guard from time to time. It takes a little practice to be able to play both sides with equal strength because you will be used to concentrating on only one side - but when you are used to it then it helps your understanding of the game.
Hope you find this helpful,. ---------
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Re:How many moves ahead? - 2007/02/05 10:37wednesday wrote: How many moves ahead can a great player see in advance?
Andew Soltis in his book the inner game of Chess on the myth of the long variation says that that alot of people think the strong players see 10 moves ahead but he said in the book that it's more common for them to be looking 2 moves in advance and he gave an example game Botvinnik vs Reshevesky.
Re:How many moves ahead? - 2007/02/05 11:15Actually, de Groot in 1965 had a psychological study made on the cognetive structure underlying the differences between skilled chess players and less skilled players in the thinking ahead process. He came to the conclusion that there was absolutely no difference between them concerning thinking ahead - but that the less-skilled players had shorter memory of the lay-out of chess-positions they'd seen only for some seconds. Interesting, no?
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