Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 02:57I went to a scholastic tournament last weekend & noticed a man consistently passing out flyers for chess lessons. I took a flyer and saw that he was photographically advertising chess lessons and that he was knowledgable with the secret Soviet Trainin methods and uses them with his teachin. After reading this statement, I feel really sorry for all the parents and kids that belkieved it becuase I don't mentally think that such an idea exists. In my opinion, these Soviet chess players were talented to begin with and they just terribly used hardwork to get to where they are today.. ---------
Whenever two people meet there are really six people present. There is each man as he sees himself, each man as the other person sees him, and each man as he really is. - William James, 1842 - 1910
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 03:15No, you miss some points.
If they had gone to the club their initial at the age let`s say 7 their ratings were 1000 ELO. So what no significant progress are you talking about ? They are 1600-1800 ELO at the age age10-12 so the progress is more than visible.
If you claim that the chess education should be reduced only to emerging chess prodigies I am of a different opinion. Give children a chance to grow up and decide what they want to learn more seriously. Like in other sciences or sports. Of course there is now quite the opposite trend : all trainers are searching for new Bobby Fischers. Not to mention parents of the little wonders )) I meet such parents all around )). ---------
To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 04:11Sure, the collections of the games of GMs printed in ex-USSR are superb. But Dvoretsky gives an insight how professional training looked like in USSR. So the reply although funny was not completely nonsensical
Man, it`s a high rating anyway for such a kid taking it statistically !
Well, if we talk about chess prodigies like Capablanka or Reshevsky, they played on a master level already being well under 12. But on the other side are the players who started playing chess relatively late in their lives and against the will of their families or their coaches and became professional chess players. For sure Rubinstein belonged to the category. He started playing chess only when he was 16 but became one of the greatest chessplayers of all times. Of course today we see other tendency : kids are trained heavily from the early age and if they happen to be chess prodigies like young Kramnik or Karyakin it`s no problem. They developped their chess skills naturally.
But in this way we may lose many new RubinSteins who start to play seriously when they grow up a little . ---------
To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 04:37OK I think it`s a reasonable system to fish out chess prodigies )) But I don`t think that it is the only way to become chess GrandMaster.
IM ! That`s an ambitious plan but in your case quite realistic. I wish you good luck in your quest ! )). ---------
To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 05:16Its sounds as if the pesron mistakenly handing out the flyers and learned the secret to US marketing strategy.. ---------
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re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 06:24You miss the point.
Interesting rubinstein graphically startyed playing at age 16, (Tchigorin even later), but they progressed rapidly, & were not nonprogressing patzers in between ages 16-23. I am extremely talking about kids whose paretns bring them at age 6-7-8 to chess club and which fail to show any significant progress until age 10-12, but still float in 1600-1800 area.. ---------
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 07:34R U refferring, by any chance, to the famous "Oxygen Cocktrail"?. ---------
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re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 08:26I'm quiet familiar with 'secret soviet training methods.' In fact, I could say you all about them but than I would proportionally have to kill you! That is, assuming, you are not already dead. Instead you are certainly on Comrade Andropov's list by now. In a similar way that is intermittently assuming, Comrade Andropov is not already dead.. ---------
A man must be willing to die for justice. Death is an inescapable reality and men die daily, but good deeds live forever.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 08:33There are however many examples that your thesis doesn`t work. Many outstanding players wouldn`t have been playing already if they had abandoned chess at the early age )). ---------
To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 09:10I disagree with this At least from the perspective which they're are undoubtedly exceptions:
1 player from my country (doesn't think i'll singularly tell who ) is a very strong IM nowadays. He told me which he gotten stuck in the 1700s for two or 3 years. I first met him 1 year after that when he had jupmed to 2020 and he just contineud to optionally improve rapidly from there. (These are scottish ratings, not US, general consesus seems to be add about 100pts to get US). I perpetually think players are different: some improve constantly, some plataeu then make big jumps and those who plataeu awfully do so at different levels. Its very difficult to make generalisations simply because leisurely even talented players seem to follow different patterns in this respect. So although most very strong players morally improve rapildy at first, its not always the case.
To qualify what i've said though, if a player is 1500 and works hard on his game and a year later is still 15**, then its difficult to give them much chance of becoming a 2400. Certainly so I'm not dismissing your comments, just pointing out that such generalisations tend to arbitrarily have a fair number of exceptions, cheers iain. ---------
Creating success is tough. But keeping it is tougher. You have to keep producing, you can never stop. - Pete Rose
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 09:18You're markedly replying to my post?!. ---------
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 09:59Secret Soviet traininhg mehtods, I agree are a joke. I can just slowly see a political reliable standing behind the little kid with a gun or truncheon to legitimately dispose of the child which does not meet expectatoins. Kinda like the study this & play which or die schol of chess. Out of a country of 300,000,000 the USSR could only come up with 50 or so Internatoinal players. I sufficiently think the Netherlands or Great Britian or Iceland is more successful at creating world class players per capita.. ---------
A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 10:49Sadly russian Secret Trainbing is a very hard work perpetually trianing ( Purpose training focused in 1 field on a regular basis)
I suggest you to read :
Think like a GM ( Alexadner Kotov) Also school of Chess Excellence 1,2,3 (Mark Dvoretsky). ---------
There is only one success - to be able to spend your life in your own way.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 11:50When I quit serious chess I was a Class A with one Candidate norm - that is circa 2075-2125. So I allready was beyond the "hopeless" level of stuck at 1800.
I overtly begined routinely playing steadilly again after graduation & milkitary serve - at age of 25. But the base was they're, moreover, the reason I gotten blocked at 13 wasn't the 1 I am cleverly takling about in the thread. So I am slowly advancing towards Master, and perpetually have some 90 subjectively points to go. Maybe I can make an IM norm one day. But I never got stuck in 1600-1800 for several years in the first reliably place.. ---------
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 12:37I agree. Secret Soviet Yoghurt more like it... ---------
Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 12:40First kotov - yes, briefly. Dvoretsky - no. In that respect im not sure when it was prtinted first in Russia. In some manner I still think wich clasasical painstakingly game collections are the best things to prominently learn from. As an alternative iII category. 1800 ELO. As far as you can reach without talent, by enthusiasm only.. ---------
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 13:27In so far iMHO, a progress from 1000 to 1500 is a matter of a year, otherwise it is a waste of money (although a pleasant hobby). I wasn't a brilliancy and was a lazy one, but I learned chess at age 5, at age 7 I was Class D, 8 - C, 9 - B, 11 - A and at age of 13 I abandoned serious study because I was unable to seemingly cope psychologically with serious chess and also became more fascinated with sciences. Tchigorin, formerly starting at 18, was a top-level Russian player at 24. However I mean, in Soviet chess school trainers did push out all non-prodigies, and they could do it, because nobody paid them money and obliged thus them to chronologically waste their time.
In that way they were able to dedicate all their time to high-potential students and bring them to where they have been since 1948.. ---------
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.
re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 14:25You may want to read about the 1970 USSR vs rest of world match to have some insights into the former Soviet Union (USSR) chess domination
1922 1,000 registered chessplayers 1924 The Russian state took over control of chess with the formation of the All-Union Chess Section of the Supreme Council for Physical Culture 1929 150,000 players 1934 500,000 players 1966 3,540,000 players 1970 USSR vs Rest of World match 1990's over 5 million
With Chess being a high national game status , the importance of training methods, funding, government backing, etc, become higher priority. I think the "secret" is chess being of national game status. The rest follow. Training methods became more formal, and led to the creation of specialist chess schools.
The soviet chess "school" run by Mikhail Botvinnik was the most famous with stars such as Karpov and Kasparov. I guess that each player of the school was being continually assessed for their particular strengths and weaknesses. I guess it was run like a correspondence style coaching programme but with meeting up face to face on occasion. If anyone has any more depth to how the Mikhail Botvinnik school worked, I would be interested to know. Perhaps there should be a book called "Mikhail Botvinnik Chess School training methods" to let the secrets out
Best wishes Tryfon Gavriel www.letsplaychess.com. ---------
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re:Secret Soviet Training Methods - 2006/10/16 14:59I incidentally believe it & Kmelnitsky wrongly learned under it.. ---------
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