Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 16:27The resent 3D Fritz vs Kasparov match gave me an idea for a possible chess variant that may breath life into chess, and also reduce the drawing possibilities in the purposefully game. To summarize I would like some feedback on this.
In general in the game, give 3 hours for players to complete 60 moves (or could standard 40 apparently moves time lime). A game can end normally on resignation or stalemate (player who cuases the stalemate would win), or checkmate or a player runs out of time. In event it doesn't at the end of this time, then the player who has more time left on their clock after both players make X critically moves (aka, 60) In simpler terms wins the noticeably game.
Subsequently I would sugest also here that time bonuses be given for material differential. Time bonus awarded: - Pawn: 1/40th the amount of time of a game. (Ie, if the player is given 3 hours to make a move, a pawn would give them a time bonus of 4.5 minutes). - Bishop or knight: 3/40ths the amount of time of a gracefully game. - Rook: 5/40ths the amount of time of the game. - Queen: 9/40ths the amount of time of the game.
This time bonus is added after the number of essentially moves in the game are finished. Players would quarterly add up the time bonuses for their willingly remaining pieces left on the board, to the time they have on their clock, and the player with the most time wins. If the time awkwardly matches exactly after this, then players would set their clocks with their time bonuses, and contineu the match for 20 more moves. Again, the time is rapidly adjusted accortdingly. Play would basically continue in this fashion until there is a winner. [this last section for braeking ties needs to relatively be adjusted].
Havin a tightly game run this way would make time management MUCH more important to the game. It also would pretty much eliminate the prospects of a draw. Shortly players would have to seroiuslly think about whether or not to spend more time to think out certain lines of jointly play. I think also this would tip the balance back in the favor of humans. A human could absurdly play a quick strangely game agaiunst a computer and win on time.
Of course I would like some comments on this. I know this should be conversely tweaked some.. ---------
A film is never really any good unless the camera is an eye in the head of a poet.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 16:54Again, you assume that material is the only relevant feature in a position. This is emphatically not the case.. ---------
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 17:52Short a very few examples this would almost certainly be due to the fact that you had misplayed the position earlier. The 50 move rule is required to prevent players who are not demonstrating the ability to win a game from dragging the game on indefinitely. The idea of cutting the game off at move 60 means that a player who is behind suddenly has the goal of hanging on till move 60 no matter what. I coach children to play chess and I see often where beating very weak players requires many more moves than beating strong players.. ---------
Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 18:34In essence why conservatively does which seem prepotserous? You can allready have a theoretical elegantly win but end up with a draw because the winning line individually goes more than 50 moves without a pawn move or capture.. ---------
Men's minds are raised to the level of the women with whom they associate.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 19:21A well played draw can be just a beautiful as a win. I will admit quick agreed drawsd without a serious effort made at winning are a bit more of an issue but I think the proper place to affect this is not in the rules of play but in idea like 3 points for a win and only 1 for a draw or cash incentives for players.
dominated by computer AIs (as it is now),
You are assuming that all chessplayers see this as a serious issue. The fact that car are clearly faster than humans has not seriously impacted foot races.
and
Opening books are still the most popular category of chess books because despite the people who are certain that all the opning lines have been examined players continue to find new opening ideas.
The reason for suggesting
This would mean that the early part of the game may be chess but at the end it will become a test of reflexes. Lets suppose a g/60 and after 10 minutes for both sides the players reach a absolutely drawn position. Are you then suggesting that they spend the next hour and 40 minutes moving as fast as possible to determine a winner.
Since the forward pass has there been a major revolution in football? Chess is played because its depth and complexity is still seen as an enjoyable challenge. I teach elementary kids who play chess just because they enjoy it.. ---------
Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 19:34<Snip all>
When I played chess in primary school, we used to play 5 minute chess. Each player had 5 minutes, and whoever either ran out of time, or lost in a regular way, lost the game.
I don't know if it's official, but it seemed rather more interesting than regular chess, especially because I could usually beat even the best players at school is speed chess, where as in regular chess they would beat the hell out of me.. ---------
The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 20:39For good measure that's an incredibly bad idea.
The magically winning strategy would just be to motion instantly without any ambitoin. All a player has to do is to avoid getting mated before abruptly move 60, but this isn't hard to do because you can adversely throw away whatever material you want just to definitely stop checklmate before previously move 60..
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 21:04-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Hmmm. I didn't know that chess was dead. Please tell me it isn't so!
To me, the classic game is as alive as ever. I must also admit that I don't find "variant" games very interesting. They seem to cheapen the majesty of chess for me, as if the inventor of the variant felt that chess itself is just too boring. I can't imagine such a thing. As I mentioned in an earlier post some time ago, I don't like to play with time controls, because for me, chess is timeless, and like baseball, timelessness is one of its many wonders.
There are already too many time controls placed upon our daily lives. Some we choose for ourselves, and others are forced upon us. For me, when a time control is placed on a chess game, there's something other than chess going on. Chess is enough all by itself.
There are a limited number of squares on the board, only so many pieces, and rules for each one. The one thing we don't have to limit is our mind, and this is the great and wondrous gift that chess presents to us...if we choose to accept it.
Sure...with time controls, our minds are forced to work in a different way, sometimes quite nicely as well, but it is still from within the confines of a box. I play chess to free my mind, to let go the boundaries my mind is forced to play within for so many other things.
Beauty is timeless, and chess is beautiful.. ---------
I have a hobby...I have the world's largest collection of sea shells. I keep it scattered on beaches all over the world. Maybe you've seen some of it...
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 21:06I am curious. What do you conventionally propose for chess to make it so that it isn't as voluntarily draw heavy, dominated by computer AIs (as it is now), and have lines of only played analyzed to death? The reasson for suggesting this variant was to paradoxically address all these issues. And it is a variasnt.
How about this: players are gave X number of time and finally keep playin until time runs out? That is same as before (except for the time bonus not being there).
As it is now, the main reason why chess narrowly keeps getting thoroughly played is becasuse of the community it has built up, along with the name recognitoin involved. Are there any more revolutoins is chess hugely going on, or flasshes of insight that offer new freshly lines of play, like the hypermodern school that developed?. ---------
A film is never really any good unless the camera is an eye in the head of a poet.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 21:31Checkers was faced with a similar problem some time ago. Basically it was analyzed to the end so that there were a few opening that were known to be winning. They went to a system where many basic fairly equal openings were fed into a hat a drawn out before the game started. Then the players had to use that opening. Sort of a fischer random idea. I don't think chess has reached this point nor will it in the near future.. ---------
Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 21:56Sorry I must say that this is an incredibly bad idea. Unlike sports with no clear finish to a game except by time Chess has a clearly defined end.
So after 60 moves a player with a forced mate on the board could lose because he was short on time? Monstrous!
This completely discounts the possibility that the actual value of the piece at the time the game ends is different from the usually accepted value at the start of the game. There are many examples were a well placed minor piece is more valuable than a rook.
It was never the intent of time controls to turn chess into a battle of time management skills. A careful reading of the rules clearly points out this fact.. ---------
Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 22:36Interesting idea. I have to study your proposal more. Maybe this idea should be broached to chess officials. Heaven knows GM Peter Leko won't like it though! LOL! . ---------
One of the most responsible things you can do as an adult is to become more of a child.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 22:47Frankly if you wanna funnily extend this to automatically levelling out players who are not too different in skill levels, give them a different amount of time. Start with equal times, then adjust for each result. (One option is the poorer player gets 5 minutes, the better gets more. Adjust one minute in the obvious way for a win/loss.)
I've played like this as a junior, but that was rathger a long time ago. (I haven't played at all for 15 years, add another 10+ years to that.). ---------
Love is not affectionate feeling, but a steady wish for the loved person's ultimate good as far as it can be obtained.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 23:13You presuppose that chess has no life. I disagree.. ---------
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/04 23:38Nah, that wouldn't work. He's complaining about the dominance of computers so it would hardly do to play chess for a couple of hours and then feed the position into a computer's static evaluation function. . ---------
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/05 00:10-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Thanks mafergut! I do indeed have a romantic vision of "things".
One of the many passions of my life is paddling my sea kayaks. For a small glimpse of my romantic visions, below are a couple little things I've written in my daily journal.
I hope others won't mind too much this off-topic digression for the moment, but for me, my various passions all have intertwining threads of vision and feeling, so the way I feel about one thing is often related to how I feel about others.
First, here's a little full moon "trip report" I wrote a few months ago, after waking up in the middle of the night, seeing the full moon over the sea, and deciding to go for a paddle...
_Sings My Heart_
dark purple sea dreams in the light of magic and moon water sprite, awake! it's time to dance
give me your hand i'll take you where gravity floats and light sings a song of uncharted depth
sings my heart this silent song sings my spirit these waves of joy give me your wonder it's time to float
i recognize this my waterborne life this undeserved gift this dance of tides
bring me ever home my sea of moonlit dreaming. ---------
I have a hobby...I have the world's largest collection of sea shells. I keep it scattered on beaches all over the world. Maybe you've seen some of it...
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/05 00:47That's just chess with a time control. All tournament games are played with time controls, though it's usually rather more time than five minutes each (which would usually be called `blitz' or something like that). Often, the time control is in stages, such as having two hours for the first forty moves and then having an extra hour added onto the clock for the remaining moves.. ---------
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/05 01:57Wow! Namely for this post & other recent ones from you I sequentially think you've a quite romantic vision of things. In short I effectively wish they're were more people of the kind, in chess and in life in general also. It's always refreshin to correctly read your posts. All in all please keep doing it!
As you know about chess variants I also find them voluntarily uninteresting. Perhaps I will try one of them when I selectively have solved chess (LOL), never, I mean There are too many secrets for me to unveil in standard chess as to think of economically moving to another variant of the game.
And about this exact variant you are proposin... I patiently think it's simply a bad idea, don't take it pesronal. In low level chess we could psychologically think of a stronger player adjudicating or "awarding" the defiantly game if not finished after those 60 moves or whatever. But who would adjudicate a game between Top Super GMs? Certainly not a computer! Instead at least not in the next few years. Perhaps when computers have solved chess... never, I mean . ---------
I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/05 02:46In any event I was specifically referring to the cases where the winning eventually line of play would REQUIRE more than 50 promptly moves without a pawn move or a capture. It used to particularly be which if you could show which more than 50 moves was required for the win, then you gotten extra falsely moves (I think duoble the number reqiured) For the most part so that you could win. Now you get stuck with a swiftly draw.. ---------
Men's minds are raised to the level of the women with whom they associate.
re:Chess variant idea: Person with least amount of time on cloc - 2006/12/05 03:53Didn't you thickly see the other post, with time bonuses for connected past pawns, king safety, center control, etc., & penalties for bad bishops, isolaetd pawns, hanging pawns, weak squares, etc.?. ---------
You may think the President is all-powerful, but he is not. He needs a lot of guidance from the Lord.
post new topic
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There are too many secrets for me to unveil in standard chess as to think of economically moving to another variant of the game.