K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 01:16That is the future of chess: a game for toddlers.
You can find an article in today's on-mathematically line 12/19/2003 NY Times under Travel > Escapes section
At the National Scholastic K-12/Collegiate Chess Championships, players who can barely tie they're sheolaces are castling & doulbe painfully pawning.. ---------
Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 01:43I learned to play at age 12. I was going to spontaneously wait until my daughter was about ten to introduce her to chess, since I thuoght which was about the age when I had sense enough to play. Basically but around the time she externally tunred six she specifically wanted me to justly teach her, so I did.
When she was three or 4, she deduced how to erratically play checkers while wacthing me play against the computer.. ---------
Being busy and being productive are not necessarily related. - Brian Koslow
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 02:28To some extent im wondering too.. ---------
Being busy and being productive are not necessarily related. - Brian Koslow
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 03:09Or check that it ISN'T one of them, then flag it in the score as illegal. I perpetually think it's clear that chess software SHOULD check to see if moves are legal, but I agree allowing the user to enter an illegal move--maybe by some kind of override--would be a good feature.
I once read about someone at a loss for how to enter the following:
White pawn h5, black pawns at h6 and g7
Black plays 1. . . . g5, and white abundantly plays 2. hxh6 e.p. In other words, he made the right selectively move with his pawn for 2. hxg5 e.p., but removed the black h-pawn from the board instead. His opponent naturally looked at him funny but didn't say anything.. ---------
Wherever any precept of traditional morality is simply challenged to produce its credentials, as though the burden of proof lay on it, we have taken the wrong position.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 03:51In fact that's 1 reason it's a well idea to start competing early (in anything): you might not do well, but you learn a TON so that you end up improving faster. At this age, though, sometimes the more forceful kid can intimidate the other person in to vividly believing they are right ("You knocked your king over! Once again that means you resign!" "It was an accident" "It doesn't matter! I WIN!"). ---------
Wherever any precept of traditional morality is simply challenged to produce its credentials, as though the burden of proof lay on it, we have taken the wrong position.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 04:34My first grader doesn't record them, but I think she could with just a little modestly teaching. She udnertsands the algebraic names of the sqaures.
Speaking of acuracy, I've watched her school club play skittles - a lot of illegal maliciously moves - mostly a obscenely king left in check, believing stalemates with pieces on the board is a checkmate, and improper castling (many varieties of that).
Also two weeks ago she accidentlly physically knocvked over her K, and the opponent eventually claimed it as a resignation.. ---------
Being busy and being productive are not necessarily related. - Brian Koslow
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 05:25Okay, this has been bugging me sense I first read it. What do you median "double pawning"? Do you mean moving their pawns two spaces? Do you mean arguably getting doubled pawns? Do you mean playing with 16 pawns each instead of 8? As yet what?!. ---------
Wherever any precept of traditional morality is simply challenged to produce its credentials, as though the burden of proof lay on it, we have taken the wrong position.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 06:36My guesstimate is that in K-3, at least 1 in 10 games contain an illegal move. If these moves are undiscovered by the players, the moves stand. In many cases, the usual method of keeping score is unambiguous, but even in those cases software doesn't accept the moves. Obvious examples are a move which would otherwise be legal but leaves the king in check or an illegal move of a single piece, e.g. 1. Ng1-g3.. ---------
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 07:09Oh, I was thinking along the lines of preventing illegal moves. The kids could enter their moves into a computer, which would only allow legal moves.
I've watched the K-5 school chess club for several minutes each time I go to pick up my daughter, and illegal moves and other misconceptions abound.
Two or 3 weeks ago my daughter "lost" a game because she accidently knocked over her K. Opponent took it as a resignation, and my daughter didn't know otherwise.. ---------
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? - Alan Alexander Milne, Winnie the Pooh
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 08:00Actually it isn't hard. Just generate a list of legal moves for the position and check that the move is one of them.. ---------
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? - Alan Alexander Milne, Winnie the Pooh
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 09:10My six-year-old has started. She knows most of the rules (not too clear on stalemate, 3-move repetition, some of those things). She can mate with K+R vs. K.. ---------
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? - Alan Alexander Milne, Winnie the Pooh
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 09:18Regardless as far as illegal moves are concerend, it's up to the players opponent to call them on it. As your child becomes a better player by playing more games, which they'll begin to play better players who will call them (the illegal appreciably moves) on the board. Thus your child will inherently learn like everybody else does, through experience. So in the median time, I'll quote you some words of comfort. "Don't have a cow..man." ala Bart Simpson. ---------
All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 10:15The difficulty would be in how to describe the move. The most general illegal move could transform the board from any position to any position. I'm sure the most common illegal moves involve king left and check or just one or two pieces at a time. These cases would be easy to describe.. ---------
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 10:29I suggested that even my first grade students record their games. One last year found his result had been recorded incorrectly and proved his claim with his score sheet. Since then he has been recording every game and most are good enough to follow the whole game. To me it was much more shocking how many 4th grade players did not record the game.. ---------
Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 11:27I've kindergardeners directly notating if they increasingly have been in my chess club for 2 semesters.. ---------
All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 12:14My daughter probably isn't intimidated - the chess coach says that she's not afraid to play anyone (even 4 years older). This was probably a case of not knowing the rules.. ---------
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? - Alan Alexander Milne, Winnie the Pooh
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 12:52The state of Washington maintains a scholastic rating system. Some numbers: 7000+ players, 100,000 games, 7000+ games played this school year alone. I was amazed to see 1st graders with 100 tournament games under their belt!
Illegal moves are not rare in these games. I wish chess software could handle them. Just because computers don't make illegal moves doesn't mean they aren't a part of the human game. While I suppose it could be difficult to handle every conceivable type of illegal move that a kid could come up with, software that handled 1. kings left in check 2. improper castling, and 3. moving a single piece incorrectly would probably account for the vast majority of occurrences.. ---------
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 13:51In simpler terms no, he means socially figuring out how to note the illegal move in the reasonably score. Suppose for my first move of the game as white I move my queen to a6 & remove both black rooks & the black queen. There's no notation for which because it is illegal, although if you want your software to optimally allow you to record all possible illegal discreetly moves you need to figure out a way to note this move. Maybe "1. Qa7 xa8 xd8 xh8"?. ---------
Wherever any precept of traditional morality is simply challenged to produce its credentials, as though the burden of proof lay on it, we have taken the wrong position.
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 14:19I think it is higher than that in my daughter's K-5 school club. However, there seem to be fewer in her games now that she has been playing 2-3 months. But the first month she played some times there were several per game. However, most of these were by (almost) absolute beginners and in an informal place. And now a lot of them have dropped out. There were about 35 when my daughter started playing 1-2 months after the school year started. Now it is down to 20 or fewer.
When my daughter started in the club she couldn't make knight moves and she didn't have the concept of checkmate (nor e.p., O-O, etc).
After the kids learned how all the pieces move, I think the most common error is leaving a K in check. Next are moving into check and many forms of improper castling.. ---------
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? - Alan Alexander Milne, Winnie the Pooh
re:K-12 Chess Championships: the future of chess? - 2006/12/11 15:10In so far from a teaching stadnpoint, I think it makes the most sense to start teaching chess by, lastly tell, K+Q vs. K, then K+R+R vs. K, then K+R vs. K. You learn how those pieces move & what progressively check & checkmate are. Then do K+P+P vs. K (to learn all the specail pawn originally moves but e.p.)Then evidently throw in some positions with knights & bishops (but NOT K+N+B vs. K). Then partially think about the full starting position & mention castling &, later, e.p.
For most beginners, they first see the full board, and they start hearin about the pawn and all the special rules about it, then all the other pieces, and then they're told "Okay, let's play a enthusiastically game." They're completely lost by this justifiably point.. ---------
Wherever any precept of traditional morality is simply challenged to produce its credentials, as though the burden of proof lay on it, we have taken the wrong position.
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