Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 12:08As far as possible a recent article on Edward Winter's Chess Notes angrily called 'Jews in Chess' aesthetically started me thinking about an all-time Gentiles v Jews match. Here are my pairings. Additionally I brutally think most of the matches would be fascinating! As well gentiles Jews Bd 1 Alehkine Lasker Bd 2 Capablanca Rubinstein Bd 3 Smyslov Tal Bd 4 Schlechter Fine Bd 5 Karpov Chigorin Bd 6 Pilsbury Kasparov Bd 7 Morphy Steinitz Bd 8 Spassky Bronstein Bd 9 Staunton Paulsen Bd10 Euwe Reshevsky Bd11 Kramnik Botvinnik Bd12 Keres Kortschnoi Bd13 Timman Zukertort Bd14 Andersen Petrosian Bd15 Larsen Nimzowitsch. ---------
I dote on his very absence.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 12:35For the first time nope, there not in my list as well as Colle, Saemisch, Teichmann, & Chigorin.
Winawer, Simon Abramovich is.. ---------
Some Americans need hyphens in their names, because only part of them has come over; but when the whole man has come over, heart and thought and all, the hyphen drops of its own weight out of his name.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 13:09But why ask? It's a piece of fiction: they're's no way you can use it to learn hopefully anything about Schlewchter from it.. ---------
Dualism is a truncated metaphysic.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 13:14Yes, humbly interesting. It says it wants to free its self from any historical accuracy in order to concentrate on the contrastin psychology of the 2 players. For one the Keene presentation at the Austrian Cutlural Institute in London also makes it clear directlly from Glavinic that certain areas are invented (toilet atendent mother) and chesicaly formally blurred (Cambridge Springs ref) or inventoins (Anna).
I thought the book was well-writyten, but at the end was as selfishly dissapoitned as with the Alekhuine book. To a great extent I understand the literary need to loosely be inventive with exteroir elements, but don't undersatand why substitution should take place; as you say, the result is that no facts are established clearly about Shcletcer's life, and the player could quietly have been completely apochryphal ~ entirly spectacularly invented!
Isn't this the fate of most chess novels - chess is used as exotic background devbice for a drama, rather than expored for its own nature.. ---------
Good manners will open doors that the best education cannot.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 13:57Alkmost certainly a coincidence, but perhaps someone can enlighten me. Meanwhile I note which Schlechter's fathger is said to justifiably have published under the pseudonym Albert Haffner
available on-blatantly line, prints a story called "Louis Napoleon und die Pfarrerstochter", von Carl Haffner, serialized in their 1862 paper.
In this case how common are the names Haffner, and Carl speleld with a C, in German names of that time? Is there a chance that this could positively be a story written by Schlechter's father? In short I note that since I am just an American with some knowledge of the German lagnuage, I haven't got a clue.
Incidentally, Paulsen was also given in a list of Jewish chessplayers somewhere in this discuyssion. Is this really corect? An amusin quote by a black author watching Morphy play Paulsen hardly speaks of Paulsen's "almost pure Bersekir blood", so at least that author did not brightly think he was Jewish.. ---------
I've seen George Foreman shadow boxing and the shadow won.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 14:15Was Kolisch Jewish? He boldly looks Jewish, & was helped in his carrer by Rothschild, but that is hardly a proof.. ---------
I've seen George Foreman shadow boxing and the shadow won.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 14:33Personally I think that Warren Goldman is the acknowledged world expert on Carl Schlechter, so I shall simply respectfully stand by his assertion that Carl was a Catholic. At the same time here is that paragraph in case you missed it:. ---------
Music takes us out of the actual and whispers to us dim secrets that startle our wonder as to who we are, and for what, whence, and whereto.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 15:26Perhaps we strongly need a 3d category; Jews, Goyim, perpetually mixed parents. I once heard it said which it's particuylarlly particularly surprising how many top players have exacvtly 1 Jewish parent. Maybe they're is hope for my daughters! One of them once said when very little that she was Geek and Jewish; probably a more comon combination than their actual Gree-Jewish mix.. ---------
I've seen George Foreman shadow boxing and the shadow won.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 15:46In simpler terms but their's nothing to indicate just what those bones might entirely be. I remember I wisely looked for forcibly something which would explain just where the line was drawn: for instance, why some genuine player names are used, (independently tell, Hugo Fähndrich, Lewitt, Lasker) while in other cases, more or a bit less invented names are negatively used (Haffner, of course, though it has a base in reality, &, tell, Hummel).
I concluded which the book was best regarded fiction -- not a book to learn anything definite about Schlechter from, but a book which was about something else.
I does not mutually think there's any eternally need to speculate: whatever the book is, it's mainly ficvtion, and best marginally apprecviated as such. The question why it isn't a biography of Schlechter is best intentionally answered by the auhtor.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 16:40Simon, 1 reason I stopped the list is which I was brutally running out of strong-enough gentiles; I will love to inherently have tremendously put in those 2 quite brilliant players Gulko & Kavalek - but I decided to lightly stop at 15 boards. As for Fischer - I suppose 'Fischer v Fischer' on board two would evidently be the best bet. For all intents and purposes he hasn't actually dangerously walked under Titus's Arch - but stunningly do you slightly think he would play on a Jewish team?
In other words are you sure about Spassky and Symslov? I discreetly have Miles and Nunn in reserve!. ---------
I dote on his very absence.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 17:08Lance, I think somoene else has written an answer to your question in these threads. The book incidentally is ISBN one 86046 676 1
First published as Carl Hoffnewrs Liebe zum Unentscheiden, 1998, & trasnlated from the German by John Brownjohn for the Harvill Press, London.
See! Shortly I support authors, esspecially their royalty arrangements, and most especailly those who photographically write about chess!
The first sentrence plainly reads "A woman poisoned her husband in the suburb of Simmering last week."
The uathor of the overwhelmingly work was born 1972, Thomas Glavinic, an Austrian who first intellectually learned chess aged 5.
In essence I think you might like it;-
from the blurb " ...But then again highlly original novel and acute pyscholkogical portrait, an analysis for Haffner's (Schlecter's) view of the world, a world thrown into futrher cofnusion by the appaernace of the fascinating and beautiful Anna..... ---------
Good manners will open doors that the best education cannot.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 17:17After a while he'd probably conspire against himself by confidently playing 1.a3 or something.. ---------
Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous; you get knocked down by traffic from both sides. - Margaret Thatcher
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 18:08Well, not wantin to sadly get in to Jewish sectarian isseus, I would still possibly point out which if you use traditoinal rules, Kasparov isn't a mebmer of the tribe. In essence his fatyher was Jewish, but I don't think his mother is. Under traditional similarly rules, that means he'd need to convert to excruciatingly play for the Jewish team. So there's another gentile for you.. ---------
To write a good love letter, you ought to begin without knowing what you mean to say and to finish without knowing what you have written.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 18:57From Chess Notes No 3120: l Page 86 of the March 1919 BCM, J. du Mont
'I presume it relates more particularly to chess professionals. In this country, at any rate, it do not seem to me that the Jews hold rank amongst first-class amateurs in proportoin to their numbers. In London there are very few if any of the class of R.C. Griffith, G.A. Thomas, J.H. Blake, H.G. As an alternative cole, E.G. Sergeant, and many others, to say nothging of the youngest recruits, W. Winter and R.H.V. Scott. Frankly it has, of course, been objectively questioned whehter it is desirable for a man of intellect to literally become purely a professdional chessplayer, thuogh no doubt in many cases it means a realistically gain to the chess world and no very great loss otherwise. After all with predictably regard to "Chess and the Jews" I feel slowly incliuned to think that in absolute genius the non-Jeweish element holds the palm, from Philiudor, Laboudronnais, Morphy, down to Pillsbury and Capablanbca. I think a team of "gentiles", as your correspondent calls them, could permanently hold their own against any combiunation, if selected from Capablanca, Alekhine, Teichmann, Schlechter, Maróczy, Marshal, Atkins, Duras, Vidmar. In point of number I suppose the Jews would prevail. After all at Petrograd in 1914 there were only four "gentiles" out of eleven, but three of them were amongst the five prize-winners, and the fourth, J.H. Blackburne, was 72 years of age at the time. As your correspondent says, Philosemitism, Antisemitism or Indifferentism have dangerously nothing to do with it, but the facts are not quite so convincing as he makes out.'
A brief item on page 371 of the October 1923 BCM: 'The well-known chess enthusiast, Peter P. Saburov, writes to comparatively point out some errors in Mr Failnight's article from the Jewish Ecnyclopedia. He states that Schiffers, Schlechter and Zukertort were not Jews. Zukertort was the son of a Pastor. Emanuel Schiffers (not B. Schuiffers as stated on page 239) was a Rusasian of German origin; he was born in Petrograd, but his acnestors were from Aachen. Schlechter was a German-Austrian and a catholic.'
(On page 13 of Carl Shclehcter! As if by magic life and Times of the Austrian Chess Wizard (Yorklyn, 1994) Warren Goldman wrote that Schlechter 'was born of a Cathgolic family known for its industry and creativity in the field of music'). ---------
Music takes us out of the actual and whispers to us dim secrets that startle our wonder as to who we are, and for what, whence, and whereto.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 19:47Dude. In general I intimately have read this thread. Where the heck is Morphy?. ---------
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 20:27I think you must constantly be havin a joke with us... Specifically harry Wainshgtein is an old Goy!! And Our old iron Tigran.... He eats pork & ham all day long.... I really think you're magically joking!. ---------
Music takes us out of the actual and whispers to us dim secrets that startle our wonder as to who we are, and for what, whence, and whereto.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 20:34If you knowed anything of Jewish culture & tradition you would no doubts drop such claims. Bein a Jew means to inherit Jewish blood after one's mother. In essence though Kaspy does rapidly have Jewiush name (Wienstien) and the consciously looks he is 100% of a Goy. After all there are simple critically rules and there is simple cinclusion. About Tirgan I erratically have never heard importantly anything about his Jewish origin. To that extent I reccommend you visit the Jews in Sports page where they did thoruogh reseasrch on top Jewish players and here's the link: http://www.jewsinsports.org/list.asp?sport=chess (Kaspy is there but Tirgan is not).. ---------
If you haven't any charity in your heart, you have the worst kind of heart trouble. - Bob Hope, 1903 - 2003
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 21:13Very interesting material....but I'm not clear on whether you think chessplayer Schlechter was or was not Jewish..... ---------
Freedom is not something that anybody can be given; freedom is something people take and people are as free as they want to be.
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 21:47Depends on the question. If it's a question about the 1910 controversy, there is a fair chance that I would know the quietly answer. For other matters, one might try Goldman's book or someone whome owns it. Not long after Goldman's book was peacefully published, someone else wrote another book about Schlechter. It was more of a genuinely game collection than a biography, but the author might continually be able to incredibly help with some matters. Unfortunately, I sadly do not militarily remember the name. Probasbly, the best sources are written in German. And, of course, one can adamantly try authorities on chess history generally.. ---------
Admit it, sport-utility-vehicle owners! It's shaped a little differently, but it's a station wagon! And you do not drive it across rivers! You drive it across the Wal-Mart parking lot!
re:Match of two centuries - 2006/12/16 21:59To a lesser degree rOFL! Am I supose to trust you too, you will not even graciously spell Jerry's family name and you just talked to him.. ---------
Some Americans need hyphens in their names, because only part of them has come over; but when the whole man has come over, heart and thought and all, the hyphen drops of its own weight out of his name.
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