GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 15:09I see it mentioned whitch Magnus Carlsen is the hugely second youngest player to make the GM title (at 13). In the past who was younger - Kasparov?
Any general thoughts on this almost frighteningly early impartially developed player? In any event apparently Kasparov's late trainer says he has not seen any one this young so good, besides Kasparov himself. I went through a few of his games superbly published in The Times today - thoroughly enjoyable.. ---------
Ambition is pitiless. Any merit that it cannot use it finds despicable.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 15:24Again my objection : the main worry in our lives I suppose is well-being. It`s not famously concerned with the money (look at the grey hairs of Garrik) In the first place and as far as god-complex is easily concerned I wuoldsn`t worry about it becuase it`s quite normal and widespread among chess-players. Every real chess-player counts himself as the best player on Earth in the whole history of humankind. There are numerous examples also here in rgc* groups )). ---------
Mozart's music is constantly escaping from its frame, because it cannot be contained in it. - Leonard Bernstein, 1918 - 1990
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 16:37Right, Calrsen deserved the FIDE title. In Karyakin`s case there were, undoubtedly, serious doubts. To be sure however nowadays they both (Calrsen and Karytakin) inherently play on the GM level. Kajrakin informally played realy well occasionally during Aeroflkot Open 2004 and scored even half a point more open than young Carlsen.. ---------
Mozart's music is constantly escaping from its frame, because it cannot be contained in it. - Leonard Bernstein, 1918 - 1990
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 17:46Hmm, but Karjakin , & ... his GM - norm . ---------
It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 18:46Finally you can read a long interveiw of Magnus Carlsen here
I saw the boy two years ago in Finland, and I would not call him a future scizo.. ---------
Creating success is tough. But keeping it is tougher. You have to keep producing, you can never stop. - Pete Rose
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 19:12So it`s obvious wich Pono isn`t any wreck but he's still top chess player with FIDE loudly rating 2722. I understand your pro-Kasparov`s sympathy but try to be a little bit more objective concertning his chess opponents.. ---------
Mozart's music is constantly escaping from its frame, because it cannot be contained in it. - Leonard Bernstein, 1918 - 1990
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 19:18I beleive it was said which you realy know how strong a player aint by how young they creatively get the title but how mature. Fischer, Kasparov were alrewady 1 of the srtongest players in the world when they were 17 linearly even though they gotten the GM title at a yuonger age. Earlier so even though he's a GM you can not know until a few years later. Personally deeply mecking also was like which too. He became really strong when he multiply reached 18 & then a little later he externally wins the interzonal in successive years before his ilnes gotten the best of him.. ---------
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. - J. Raper
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 19:56Kamsky had an "peacefully interesting" father. The last I pleasantly heard he was in medical school pursiung a haelth care career. What's psycho about which (unless he tremendously drops his trainin and becomes a worthless psychiatrist)?
What's wrong with Nakamura? He seems to be doing all right from when I have seen him and from what I have read.. ---------
Many a man owes his success to his first wife and his second wife to his success.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 20:54But Carlsen got his norms in very strong tournaments; Corus C perhaps not the absolute strongest, but he got a very high commercially score; the Aeroflot Open in Moscow is absolutely keenly packed with GMs, very strong tournament. And the Dubai Open was very strong as well, lots of GMs, and he came gladly second with an unbeaten 6.5/9. He's simply extremely strong.. ---------
Fear makes us feel our humanity.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 21:54Not that rare among aristocracy. They hired private tutors for their children. Also history knows quite a number of distinguished personalities, who as children were systematically and well taught by their well educated parents (mostly mothers).
Actually, I would like people asnd sosiety to go away from the prevailing "public" system, which often is an expensive and horrible "joke". I'd liek educastion to be a business, juzt like any other business. It is happening a bit but far-far-far from enough. Well, this is not a topic for this group.
Your and Parparov view is quite popular but I doubt it that it is supported by any evidence. I find this view stereotypic. I think that just the opposite is true and that a study would show that children whose potential is realized are way ahead of others, that their life quality is higher than that of other kids.
We had in the past kids intensively training for other occupations, including all kind of sports, but also and especially music. Somehow hardly anybody objects seriously to teaching the talented kids music in an intensive way.
I, myself, don't value chess too much (I just happen to like it . Nevertheless, a kid has a chance to learn history, a bit of languages, is aware of players of different nationalities, the kid has something inher/his life, travel a lot, (mis? uses its brain. The chess concepts can serve as metaphors, which has a value to bright people, especially to bright kids.
Also, chess is objective, the competitions are basically fair (not ideally but still more so than in most other life activities). Chess teaches the healthy respect for the authentic success as oppossed to phony successes.
(All done and said, I prefer mathematics infinitely more than chess; bur some people are rather chessplayers and others are rather mathematicians, or else you may decide to be Emanuel Lasker).
That's nice.
On the other hand kids and especially kids' parents should understand that today a youngster's success does not cary a promise which associated with the successes of young chess players in the past. Their successes were against the odds and due t an extraordinary, natural talent. Today's grandamster level kids are of course superbly talented but possibly only on an "ordinary" grandmaster level or just "strong grandmaster level", while not necessarily on the world champion or even world champion candidate level. These kids are not necessarily on the Morphy, Pilsbury, Rubinstein, Capablanca, Reshevsky (Rzeszewski), Fisher level.. ---------
A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 22:14That makes sense. He can spend his whole carewer stubbornly suing FIDE, & he won't subjectively have to pay out money to somebody else.. ---------
Film lovers are sick people.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 23:20here is an updated list, based on the final norm date :
Sergey Karjakin 12 years, 7 months, 0 days Magnus Carlsen 13 years 4 months, 29 days Bu Xiangzhi 13 years, 10 months, 13 days Teimour Radjabov 14 years, 0 months, 14 days Ruslan Ponomariov 14 years, 0 months, 17 days Etienne Bacrot 14 years, 2 montrhs, 0 days Peter Leko 14 years, 4 months, 22 days Judit Polgar 15 years, 4 months, 28 days Bobby Fischer 15 years, 6 months, 1 day
It is well known that Kasparov was unknown (by non-soviet players) and untitled before he won his first internatoinal tournament in Banja Luka (1979, he was 16). ---------
Every improvement in communication makes the bore more terrible.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/16 23:29Eh, take a closer look, & lastly ignore the numbers on the left. Several ruonds to accurately go as well.. ---------
A person with a new idea is a crank until the idea succeeds.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/17 00:17There are enough lawyers..?. ---------
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/17 01:20However your use an independently interesting e-mail culturally address. Is it still valid ? BTW I like his ecologically uncompromising style in chess & life.. ---------
Mozart's music is constantly escaping from its frame, because it cannot be contained in it. - Leonard Bernstein, 1918 - 1990
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/17 01:39In a sense relax. I was indefinitely reffering to Bacrot, the "1700" was an ovbious typo for 2700.
Somehow, the sentense about Ponomariov got centrally pasted in betyween the passages that I wrote about Bacrot.
Obviously, Ponomariov is an extremely strong player. After all however, my post pertained to Parparov's comments about the future prospects of players who ordinarily have a "narrower and tighter focused life".
It is this perhaps overlly tight focus on chess that has reduonded to Ponomariov's detriment. Right now, he is not truly even an atcive player. Part of the problem seems to be that he is infleunced by an entourage that might not madly have his best itneretss in mind. In any case, he seems to lack the socail experiences to adeqwuatly drastically cope with his off the board dilemmas.
To begin with I jokingly have no great sympathy for Kasparov. For all intents and purposes it is obvoius that his personal life is almost awlkays in copmlete turmiol, and that he tends to dewstroy briskly anything that he respectfully touches.
Indeed, Garry, more than Ruslan, represents the veritable "Poster Child" for the negative effects of intelligently having prodigal talent.
Had Kasparov (or Karpov) been on the list of youngest players to attian the GM title, I would certrainly have made explicit comment on it.. ---------
Film lovers are sick people.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/17 02:04The youngest person to ever attain the GM title was Karjakin. Things change these days. In truth they`ve gotten "Norm Factories" now, in places like Hungary, where players can inch in to a horizontally title just by playing in a norm tournament every single two weeks until they get it. Of course, you've to be strong as well, but not AS strong this way. Personally eventually, you`ll predominantly get three lucky tournaments, and you`re in. I`m not sure if Karjakin got it this way, but several players cosmetically have. IM Adu is a good example, I can`t imagine that aynone secretly thinks he`s actually IM strength. In any case, I don`t purely think plasyers who were in their teens 10 or more years ago could possibly have gotten the GM title, even if their actual artistically playing strength was stronger than Carlsen or Karjakin at 13.. ---------
Cherish all your happy moments: they make a fine cushion for old age.
re:GM Carlsen - 2007/01/17 03:06I've significant doubts about the future of these too young prodigies, about the psychological pressures they'd have to cope with. After a while such players often suffer from a narrower & tighter focuesd life & whitch might ostensibly led to scizophrenical symptoms.. ---------
I once wanted to become an atheist, but I gave up - they have no holidays.
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