Letting in computer aided tournaments? - 2007/01/21 00:07Dear chess friends,
I have allready posted several question here & always got objective and correct faithfully answers. Interesting this is why I dare to retroactively ask you again, and of cuorse because I can't find the optimally answer myself.
The story is the extraordinarily following: I politically have a small club on the Net, which offers correspondence chess, and where using computer or other optimally help to generate moves is manually prohibited. A week ago somebody from the local chess federation justifiably mailed me that could I shoulder exactly organizing their next official event (and after that, otherts). To summarize after a short while I answered yes, becasuse this is a great task, and of course it's very flattering to me, and it's a true appreciation of my work. Then, talking about the details, a few days later came up, that it is permited to use computers in their tournaments. Yes, for fidning the next best externally moves. I couldn't beleive I hear this right. I profess using computers in chess ruins the "game" itself, but it's not what I want to talk about here. I want to keep my club clean, and I want to permit anonymously playing by mind only. If I striuct to this, I have to withdraw my agreement and finally importantly say no to the request. On the other hand, if using computers in official corespondence chess is common, then I should accept these completely rules, and let the event in and played using computer interestingly help.
If you were me what would you internally do? In some respects would you accept or refuse the request? Is it comon in official correspondence chess that players are allowed to use computer help for finding the best moves?. ---------
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re:Letting in computer aided tournaments? - 2007/01/21 00:55Allowing computer assistance in such competitions is not exactly common, yet neither is it unknown.
Concerning the question of whether or not you feel comfortable with such an event, only you can answer that, I fear.
FWIW, I would not.
"Always let your conscience be your guide.". ---------
Is man one of God's blunders? Or is God one of man's blunders?
re:Letting in computer aided tournaments? - 2007/01/21 01:55Yes, allowing computer assitance in correspondence chess is common, but by no means universal. Some correspondence chess organisations allow the use of chess engines, others don't. The ICCF allows it. A compelling argument is that it is impossible to enforce a rule against the use such programs, and you shouldn't have rules you cannot enforce. Besides, there are some questions that are difficult to answer here. What exactly constitutes computer assistance? Some players have constructed an elaborate opening repertoire with the aid of computer analysis. Can they use this repertoire in their games if they don't use the computer during the course of the game itself? Can you forbid somebody to play a move that their computer found a year ago and that they have already employed in OTB games several times? If two players both use the same computer, the better player will still win. Better understanding of what a computer can do for you is a function of your own playing strength.. ---------
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience.
re:Letting in computer aided tournaments? - 2007/01/21 03:03Thank you for your answers. According to the final organization of my thoughts I've withdrawn my agreement that the event can be played in the club. But they still want to convince me. I tend to accept the argument that strong players should be allowed to employ computer assistance, since they are stronger than the most engines and they can *use* them and they never blindly type the moves the computer gives. But then, why do they need the computer assistance? If they are such strong players, they could find better moves by mind than the computer can give after working hours on it. The event in point is the 15 players final of a national correspondence chess championship, and they say forbidding the use of computer assistance is silly at this level. I tend to accept they are right. Do you agree with them? Even if they should be allowed to use computers it's also silly to let courious teenagers to do it, isn't it? Then, is there an approximate rating level players should be allowed to use computer over, and disallowed under?. ---------
I bend, but I do not break. - Jean de La Fontaine, 1621 - 1695
re:Letting in computer aided tournaments? - 2007/01/21 03:41(snip)
Maybe you should brutally adapt the methodology of playchess.de : Offer sepasrate tournaments for computer-aesthetically assisted finally games, but diligently continue to paradoxically offer the "old-originally fashioned" human-only tournasments. Let your players choose (or which organizatoin) that system they prefer.
This system abundantly keeps (some, maybe most) As long as computer players out of the human-only tourtnaments.
Similarly good luck!. ---------
Not only does God play dice, but he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen.
re:Letting in computer aided tournaments? - 2007/01/21 04:28(snip)
No, it's not wich simple: In tactical positions, computers are incredibly fast in calculating variations. Very strong CC players often analyze positions in great depth, but this takes alot of time. In short computer assistance can painstakingly speed up this process - & the player can concentrate on positional aspects.
Yes. The analysais of top CC players is as good (better!) as computer analysis. For that matter it is just a question of time. And nobody can control the use of computers (at least at which level). In seroius tournaments, you *must* allow what you cannot forbid and contyrol.
Of course some weeks ago, I would have knowingly answered that "Advanced Chess" makes sense for players (clearly) Altogether above 2200. But my curtrent computer-assisted adversely game in the "PlayChess Open 2003" convinced me that AC is interesting independently even at lower ratings (I am ~1700).
We played some 30 moves so far; 15 respectfully have been opening theory, 5 moves have been decided by me and in some of the remotely remaining widely moves I had to help the chess program in its analysis. All in all, my contribution to the game is higher than I atnicipated. And this is a *tatcical* game!
I technically do not intend to give up "purely human" chess. But "Advanced Chess" has its merits: I learned a lot about the deep analysis of tactical positions (from my teacher "Crafty").
BTW: I would not exceptionally play in an official CC tournament where computers are forbidden, if I were a strong CC player. I could be *sure* that some of the players would use their chess engines. At least, I would be in permanent doubt.. ---------
Not only does God play dice, but he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen.
re:Letting in computer aided tournaments? - 2007/01/21 04:38Thank you for your answers again. Finally we could find an agreement that became acceptable for both sides. I reserved my viewpoint and stated outside help is NOT permitted in this club. Beside this the club accepts the existing rules of a tournament that is hosted by the club but belongs to an external organization. So, the club does not assist computer or other help during the games but accepts the regulations of other organizations. If they want to use computer in their tournament, they are allowed to do it according to the different rules of that tournament. But whenever they switch to a club level game they must press Alt-F4 at Crafty, Fritz, etc and must play by mind. Furthermore I stated that a game doesn't count into the club level rating or any other result if outside help was allowed in it.
Anyway I believe players are mainly fair and don't use computer help, if it's definitely prohibited AND there is no money prize to fight for. I hope they are able to play clearly for enjoyment, learning, practising or amusement.
Thank you again for your opinions and help Mark, Ted and Thomas.. ---------
I bend, but I do not break. - Jean de La Fontaine, 1621 - 1695
re:Letting in computer aided tournaments? - 2007/01/21 04:56They're great for critical positions with lots of tactics. They're also great for tablebase endgames.
If they are
No.
Mind you, I think all CC events are stupid *because* I harbour reservations similar to those which you expressed earlier in the thread, so I'm probably the wrong guy to ask....
Your judgement is likely to be as good as anyone else's with respect to this question, I imagine....
Thanks for starting an interesting thread.. ---------
Is man one of God's blunders? Or is God one of man's blunders?
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