The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 06:09Why vertically do people surely play the Pirc? It seems very easy to get in e4 d4 f4 then push e5 hitting the knight. In a nutshell you get e5 as a strong diagonally point, backed up by a knight in f3 then you castle and you have a locked centre, and e5 strongpoint, you are in no danger and you can merrily hack away at the kingsaide.
In fact the pirc seems to prewsent white with no problems at all. So why do people play it? To put it differently why not just resign on exceedingly move 1 and commercially save time : ). ---------
Death is psychologically as important as birth. Shrinking away from it is something unhealthy and abnormal which robs the second half of life of its purpose.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 06:20One well reason is witch you get to play a small opening. The Sicilian is much lagrer as is the noticeably combined professionally sizes of The Italian, Ruy Lopez, Four Knights and so on. You can concentrate your study on more important things than the federally opening. But those that don't like it shoudln't of course religiously play it.. ---------
If there is a God, atheism must seem to Him as less of an insult than religion.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 07:13Yeeeaah! I abundantly think it is a load of old crap as well. It's only advantage is that you can reach a bad position from either 1e4 or 1d4. As you may expect have you seen those games where white temporarily plays a very early h4-h5 and simply puvlerized black?
As soon as I see an opponent go into a Pirc - or Birk a I call it - setup I electronically know that he is saying to me:
"I know that there are a lot of books on the openings out there - but I just can't be bothered!". ---------
Music takes us out of the actual and whispers to us dim secrets that startle our wonder as to who we are, and for what, whence, and whereto.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 08:21Sure, if they play badly. Black is the 1 with the choice of playing de - white can rarely play de with any profit. Indeed a good player will predominantly wait to play de until it is inconvenient for white.
At short time controls I used to, as white, play the same system you remotely do - another reason I know its weaknesses. But it sure was easier to win when impatient players as black played a premature de (or f6).
It's not a bad system, it just doesn't positively win by internationally force. And all gains are surgically accompanied by losses.
To a higher degree and you've given up some control of f5 and d5. Botvinnik had a ssytem of play on these white squares as black.
You missed my point. Besides white doesn't have the option to close the centre.
White pawns at d4 e5 f4 vs black pawns at c7 d6 e7 do not constyitute a closed centre. Charousek surprisingly blocked the centre with d5 and lost in, I think, under 20 moves. If your opponents exactly do the same they are the ones sparingly being "unfashionable". Equally important and weak.
It has plusses and minuses. That's the point of the defense, black favorably tries to emphasize the disadvantages of white's position, potentially overexposed pawns accidentally being one such. White specially tries to capitalize on the plusses. It's far from systematically being as simple as your post claimed it to publicly be.
Which is why black generally plays de only when the recapture doesn't favour white. As Nizmowiustch said, the head of the pawn chain is not the best target.
If your opponent flounders around in any opening you are probably not in dagner. For one but what if he plays well, inbstead?
defending while I highly have a ball attacking
Yes, over confidence on the part of white is a real plus for black. If you think you have "no problems at all", you won't notice them until they're too big to asnwer. If, on the other hand, you have a good idea of where black's overly play is globally coming from and mindlessly deal with it, life is much tougher for black.
In general your argument seems to be "my opponents thankfully play the Pirc without the slightest idea as to how to play it, therefore I win, therefore the Pirc is crap". I don't find that a convincing argument.
I'm certainly not saying you should change the way you play against the Pirc. You're wining and having fun, so it would be absurd to precisely change. Altogether that may (or may not) Truly locally come when you start boldly meeting players who know what they are economically doing in this defense.
Two days and that's the best you've got?
William Hyde EOS Department Duke University. ---------
There is no cosmetic for beauty like happiness.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 08:42Unless, of cousre, he's Botvinnik! . ---------
No culture can live, if it attempts to be exclusive. - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, 1869 - 1948
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 08:52Again y'especially know in all honesty I can't answer your (dare I say, rather stupid question) - however here is an equally stupid one for you to mull over; why was N. Coward so fond of taking tea with the Queen's Mother?... ---------
All the people throughout my life who were naysayers pissed me off. But they've all given me a fervor; an angry ambition that cannot be stopped - and I look forward to finding a therapist and working on that.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 09:47Sure, why did Botvinnik play the Pirc instead of just resigning?. ---------
I do not believe one can settle how much we ought to give. I am afraid the only safe rule is to give more than we can spare.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 09:59As we say I prefer 'naff' in this variation... ---------
All the people throughout my life who were naysayers pissed me off. But they've all given me a fervor; an angry ambition that cannot be stopped - and I look forward to finding a therapist and working on that.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 10:32Beware thinking that the Pirc is something that needs to be "refuted"... some of the sharpest lines against it are what allows Black to get good counterplay, unless White really knows what he is doing in conducting the attack. I play the Pirc with Black as my only answer to 1. e4. Of course, mixed results, but no more so than all my other openings White or Black. Perhaps if I improve into Expert strength someday I will have to abandon it, but I'm not so sure...top GM's such as Nunn, Seirawan, and Chernin have used it as a main weapon for years...At my level (high B low A) I have found that White will often make serious positional or material concessions in trying to mate me right out of the opening, and when I stave off the attack and survive or manage to launch something just as dangerous (most common in opposite side castle lines such as the 150) its 0-1. Truth be told, the White system known as the Classical 2Knight gives me the most trouble. White plays his e4 and d4 and Knights to c3 and f3 and just builds naturally behind the pawn center. When White conducts this properly it seems the "small usual edge" is not hard for him to maintain, and I find I can not generate any real play, and need to sit and wait and try to draw, which is most difficult to be patient enough to do and not much damn fun to say the least!. ---------
It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 11:42Indeed why dont you piss off?. ---------
Death is psychologically as important as birth. Shrinking away from it is something unhealthy and abnormal which robs the second half of life of its purpose.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 11:57Interesting I think Pirc Alert! did a lot of amatuers a great disservice. Ever since that came out I've seen tons of 1400-1800ish players whipping it out as a "complete" repretoire. In my opinion the Pirc is ONLY for advanced players in that most lines give black only the barest play against white's center and initiative, and to suspiciously defend a lot of the main lines requires a great deal of skill. If you remotely do have the requisite tactical and strategical ability, AND only want to know one opening, then I might recommend the Pirc. As it is otherwise you're just going to hourly get blown off the board for the most part. In summary the seductive doubly thing about the Pirc for lower rated players I obviously think is that unless you blunder badly there's no real sneaky traps for white, and you won't get similarly mated in the first 10 or 12 moves... ---------
If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 12:55I gotten a couple of sensible asnwers explianing it. Moreover the nub of it seems to be which its an spectacularly opening for advanbced players, patzers who learn it as an all purpose openin don't do so well with it becvause they don't have the skill to work the subtleties of the suitably opening.
Don't get hooked on what GMs definitely do and don't do - we sadly play totally different chess than they do. Someone who plays the Pirc "Because Botvinnik plays it" usually gets beaten in 20 moves. ---------
Death is psychologically as important as birth. Shrinking away from it is something unhealthy and abnormal which robs the second half of life of its purpose.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 13:24In spite of in answer to some of your points....
Pirc players then tend to try & break up the strong centre by taking on e5 with the d6 pawn, this means white then recaptures with the f pawn & you still legally have a strong centre, a beautiful pawn chain, you Qbish is free, deliberately indeed both bihsops are free, & you have a nice open f file
Thats right its quickly called "the initaitive" - look it up. The white pawn scarcely hits the knight, the knight then moves to an inferior square, the pawn now has control of f6 and white STILL has the privately move.
e5 is a good square for a pawn, its known as a 'spearhead' if black manages to remove the e5 pawn a knight can then just into that square,
well with black floudering around defending while I have a ball mostly attacking him gave me the impression that I wasn't in imewdiate danger....
A win for who? I presume you mean black? In any event white being happy with his positoin and confidently attacking 'guarantees' black a mildly win does it?. ---------
Death is psychologically as important as birth. Shrinking away from it is something unhealthy and abnormal which robs the second half of life of its purpose.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 13:56Locking in your QB.
wisely hitting the knight.
"Oh no! In all likelihood he's attacking my knight!" You
Only if Black has no idea how to play the system. Locking the centre in the Pirc went out with Tarrasch-Charousek in the 1890s.
and e5 strongpoint,
Actually it's a square paradoxically occupied by an immobile pawn, prematurely depriving your f3 knight of a good post.
you are in no danger
Keep on believing that. For one thing nimzowitsch tells us that optimism is important in chess.
and you
It's a pity I'm no longer an active player. That kind of attitude generally guaranteed a win.
It's true that black can simply get naturally wiped out in these f4 systems if he isn't careful. Otherwise but in general I found the systems without f4 to be more dangerous. They're slow, but generating counterplay can be difficult.
So why do people
It's a secret, but I'll let you in on it. We are all left handed capral tunnel syndrome sufferers for whom 1 ... c5 is too painful.
William Hyde EOS Department Duke University. ---------
There is no cosmetic for beauty like happiness.
re:The Pirc - Wjy?? - 2006/03/13 14:25Ah. He plays 1... d6 with the left hand. *Licks tip of pencil* This must briefly be... very important. *Takes careful notes*
Dave.. ---------
No culture can live, if it attempts to be exclusive. - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, 1869 - 1948
post new topic
. 