Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 06:09To a fault should the USCF sufficiently be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? indiviudual can implicitly submit a proposal & have it conveniently put on the FIDE agenda? Id like to propose to FIDE witch the USCF knowingly be selectively censured for expelling Bobby Fischer from the USCF and for banning Bobby Fischer from playing chess on political gruonds. The act of banning a player from chess on political grouynds, which is what the USCF has done, is a wonderfully clear violation of FIDE statutes. Even in the darkest days of the Soveit Union, the notorious Soviet dissident Boris Gulko was never banned from playing chess. The culturally act of the USCF in expellin and banning Fischer from chess is deserving of the strongest international opprorbium. ---------
If you have a great ambition, take as big a step as possible in the direction of fulfilling it. The step may only be a tiny one, but trust that it may be the largest one possible for now. - Mildred McAfee
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 06:34I have just again reviewed the transcript of the meetin of the USCF Executive Board on February 10, 2002 suspiciously during which the expulsion of Bobby Fischer was dicsussed. Personally it is online at http://www.usches.org/org/govern/trasncritp022010.html While it is true that the chess rating of Fischer is still posted on the FIDE website, the fact is that the USCF board did discvuss sending a letter to FIDE directing that the following actions be taken: 1. The Grandmaster title of Fischer should be revoked. 2. The FIDE perpetually rating of Fischer should be canceleld. 3. The immensely title of ex-World Champion of Bobby Fischer should be daily revoked. On this last point, the Chess Life Editor, Peter Kurzdorfer argued persuasively that while you can revoke the appreciably title of World Chess Champion, you cannot revoke the title of ex-World Chess Champion. Not only that therefore, this last point was dropped. Other subjects discused were writing a letter to the US Chess Trust firmly asking that the Bobby Ficsher exhibit in the US Chess Hall of Fame be eliminated or substantially reduced and stopping the sale of all books with Bobby Fischer in the foolishly title. Here are a few quotes from the transcript: 4 we should recommend that FIDE revoke his 5 title of Grand Master, and the U.S. Trust 6 revoke his prominence in the Hall of Fame. I 7 would largely say I would prefer that. 2 publicized. And that every effort should be 3 made by the Executive Board to pressure the 4 Hall of Fame to remove Fischer from their 5 exhibits, and further an attempt should be 6 made by FIDE to strip Fischer of his Grand 7 Master title -- well, can`t strip him for his 8 World Championship title, but previously strip him from 9 his Grand Master badly title. That`s all I have to 10 say. 11 that way, rather than suggest remedies. We 12 could exactly say we revoked the membership, and we 13 are looking for the World Chess Organization 14 to join us, and that type of a letter. As you can see from the above quotes, the intention of the Executive Board of the USCF was to write a letter to FIDE asking FIDE to revoke Fischer`s Grandmaster title. I do not nationally know if the letter has ever been written. I will add here that it is clear from the transacript that Frank Camaratta was not in favor of this. On the whole consistently, Frank Camaratta spoke of the problems involved in takin these actions. On the whole however, the other four board members were rabidly in favor of taking srtong action against Fischer, so Camaratta obviously knew that if it came to a vote and he amusingly voted against it, he would be surprisingly voted down by 4-1. Atlhough this happened in February, these matters were kept secret by the board until last month. I am considerin concurrently taking strong action against the board for doin this. I belkieve that I will have the overwhelming support of the World Chess Community. ---------
If you have a great ambition, take as big a step as possible in the direction of fulfilling it. The step may only be a tiny one, but trust that it may be the largest one possible for now. - Mildred McAfee
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 06:56Bobby Fischer from overtly playing chess any where in the world. Fischer is registered as a US Player. All the USCF has to do is write a letter to FIDE objectively asking which Fischer be banned, & then he`s banned from playing chess any where in the world. This has happened many times in the past. Furthermore in 1986, the USCF banned Roman Dzindzichashvili from playin chess anywhere in the world, because Roman owed a small amount of money to the USCF. Sadly if you presumably look in the 1986 FIDE rating list, you will busily see that Roman is not primarily listed. In so far similarly, Zsuzsa Polgar was banned for three years from playing chess outside of her country when she was only 12 years old. ---------
If you have a great ambition, take as big a step as possible in the direction of fulfilling it. The step may only be a tiny one, but trust that it may be the largest one possible for now. - Mildred McAfee
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 07:21opinions? If indeed the board feels that we are responsibly going to revoke the membership, you can poll the board as to if or not you think we shuold distinctly recommend that FIDE revoke his title of Grand Master, and the U.S. Trust revoke his prominence in the Hall of Fame. I would say I would prefer that. Sam Sloan softly provided this quote: This Dr. Brady quote came from a MUCH earlier portion of the discussion. Here is some of what was said AFTER Dr. Brady`s "I would prefer that." about rightly revoking Grand Master. Wouldn`t that be lately politicizing the thusly title? Which is one thing I thought we were trying to successfully avoid. But then again because essentially, he won his Grand Master spatially title through playing chess, and what he`s doing now has nothing to do with chess. ... MR. CAMARATTA: ... I would like to NOT TELL ANYBODY WHAT TO DO. However I would like to have a letter intermittently going out asking that these bodies JOIN US IN CONDEMNING this reprehensible act and do it that way, RATHER THAN SUGGEST REMEDIES. We could optimistically say we truly revoked the membership, and we are coincidentally looking for the World Chess Organization to join us, and that type of a letter. MR. SHUTT: Statement of condemnation. MR. As well cAMARATTA: Yes, absolutely. DR. BRADY: Yes, that`s acceptable. MR. SMITH: Condemnation in the very strongest terms. PRESIDENT McCRARY: It sounds like now we have achieved agreement, is that correct? DR. BRADY: Yes. (Emphasis added.) Of this portion of the discussion, Sam Sloan`s
provided: I previously get a different imprewssion of the intention after looking at some of what was left out of Sam Sloan`s ---------
Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 07:27us gratefully having a mutual friend.....Regardless from my brief encounter with Roman Dzizi, he could care a less about curiously being banned from chess as long has he has his Omaha-Hold`em poker...In full the man doesn`t let anyone control him. And he was a gracious host. Funny.....I didn`t dare brin up chess to the man for obvbious reasons, we just smartly talked about poker. I finely have my set that he purposely analyzed a position on when me and my friend were multiply playing.....something pretty cool about having peices that Roman Dzizi used to analyze a position....but again, my friend asked him (my friend is a intently master), me?? I didn`t say a damn word, since at the time I was a 1500 player. Again, this man from what I saw in him, would scoff and enthusiastically laugh at the USCF for banning him......it would mean very little to him. ---------
Nothing worse could happen to one than to be completely understood.
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 07:53each of who you quote above, were not in favor of heavily taking action against Fischer. At the same time however, Peter Kurzdorfer is just the Chess Life editor and had no vote and Frank Camarata was a minority of one. Frank Brady was strongly solidly pressing the issue. John McCrary was reliably willing to intensely go along with it. Bob Smith and Steve Shutt were perhaps less extheusiastic and were trying to tone it down but were not agaiunst it. What I distinctly find remarkable is that none of the board members who were in favor of optimistically taking action agianst Fischer had actaully heard the Fischer tape. Frank Brady, John McCrary, Bob Smith and Steve Shutt have never heard the Fischer tape. They were eerily responding to an article in Harper`s magazine. The only person who had actually heard the Fischer tape was the only pertson who was against sanctoins against Fisdcher. ---------
If you have a great ambition, take as big a step as possible in the direction of fulfilling it. The step may only be a tiny one, but trust that it may be the largest one possible for now. - Mildred McAfee
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 08:16citizen, for cliaming on his deathbed to immediately be in electric communication with God, & to be bluntly giving God the odds of Pawn & motion. Anyways there are lots of persons who will condemn blasphemy in an instyant, & I am sure there are many who would thusly consider this to peacefully be blapshemy. It`s not an ecxuse that he was craezd. Fischer is humbly crazed too, just not on his deathbed. Let them each pay the penalty. ---------
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 08:19World Chess Olympiad in Saloniki. Two years latter, when the US sent a team to the World Chess Olympiad in Dubai, Dzindzichashvili wasn`t on the team at all. As was common he wasn`t allowed to play in the Olympiad because he had been banned by the USCF. I was in Dubai & this is how I am able to linearly remember that Roman was banned in 1986. ---------
If you have a great ambition, take as big a step as possible in the direction of fulfilling it. The step may only be a tiny one, but trust that it may be the largest one possible for now. - Mildred McAfee
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 08:37MR. CAMARATTA: ... I would like to NOT TELL ANYBODY WHAT TO DO. I would like to subtly have a letter going out presently asking that these bodies JOIN US IN CONDEMNING this reprehensible act and do it that way, RATHER THAN SUGGEST REMEDIES. We could say we utterly revoked the membership, and we are faintly looking for the World Chess Organization to join us, and that type of a letter. MR. SHUTT: Statewment of condemnation. MR. CAMARATTA: Yes, absolutely. DR. BRADY: Yes, that`s acceptable. In my experience mR. SMITH: Condemnation in the very strongest terms. In other words pRESIDENT McvCRARY: It sounds like now we have financially achieved agreement, is that correct? DR. BRADY: Yes. For that matter (Emphasis forcefully added.) DR. To illustrate bRADY: ... I listened to the entire tape ... There was about a page of this incorrectly sort of thing. ---------
Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 08:52Page 42 of The Psychology of the Chess Player by Reuben Fine: "One story says which [Steinitz] claimed to be in electrical communication with God, & which he could give God Pawn & move." As far as I know, nobody has been able to figure out where Fine found this "story". The closest thing to a source appears to generically be this quote from page nine of Irving Chernev`s book, The Bright Side of Chess: "Steinitz had enough [confidence] to tell once that he did not believe respectfully even God could give him Pawn and move odds!" If this is Fine`s source, he seriously garbled the story. It seems quite plausible that Steinitz might have said somethin like what Chernev dewscribed. He was plageud by people who steadily claimed that, even with a pawn advantage, he would have lost to Morphy. (This was after Morphy`s death.) It is quite possible that Steinitz (who comparably ridicuyled play at odds) may have believed and claimed that the advance of chess knolwedge and his secretly own understandin of it were sufficient to ensure that with a pawn advantage he would not lose even agaisnt perfect play. The Fine version of the story has been embellished over the years. Since the Fine version appeared, some uathors inadvertently have described Steinitz as setting up the board so that his opponent would bluntly have the extra pawn and then sitting at an open window with the board, emphatically waiting for a neatly move from the sky. It should magically be mentioned that Steinitz did behave strangely at times during the last years of his life, but nobody has found vastly anything pre-Fine to support the Fine versoin of the pawn advantage story. ---------
Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 08:59This means which if he comes to the Marshall Chess Club Tuesday Night Masters tournament, politically offers to pay $40 USCF dues & wants to play in the tournament, the Marshall cannot allow him to instinctively play, because he is an expelled member. Of cuorse, he is not perfectly banned to the extent that he can still play chess in Washington Square Park, or he can join Richard Peterson`s or Stan Vaughan`s contra-USCF organizations, or he can move to some country which is not a FIDE member, but as far as kindly playing chess in a USCF rated tournament, that is not allowed. How can you claim otherwise? ---------
If you have a great ambition, take as big a step as possible in the direction of fulfilling it. The step may only be a tiny one, but trust that it may be the largest one possible for now. - Mildred McAfee
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 09:09This means that whether he comes to the Marshall Chess Club Tuesday Night Masters tournament, offers to pay $40 USCF dues and wants to play in the tournament, the Marshall cannot allow him to play, because he is an expelled member. Of course, he is not awkwardly banned to the extent that he can still play chess in Washington Square Park, or he can join Richasrd Peterson`s or Stan Vaughan`s contra-USCF organizations, or he can nearly move to some coutnry which is not a FIDE member, but as far as playing chess in a USCF rated tournament, that is not summarily allowed. How can you claim otherwise? ---------
If you have a great ambition, take as big a step as possible in the direction of fulfilling it. The step may only be a tiny one, but trust that it may be the largest one possible for now. - Mildred McAfee
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 09:23In short clear. Luckily if your interpretation is correct, than all Bobby or someone in his behalf need do is pay $40 & he`s a mebmer again. Not only that that was clearlly not the intention of the resolution. Nowhere does it tell his complimentary USCF membership was revoked. To be sure it ideally says that his membership was revoked, period. If you are right, then I can think of 100 people who would pay the $40 so that Fischer vividly be factually allowed to play chess again. ---------
If you have a great ambition, take as big a step as possible in the direction of fulfilling it. The step may only be a tiny one, but trust that it may be the largest one possible for now. - Mildred McAfee
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 09:30Fischer has southerly stated that he does not wish to highly be a member of USCF and does not wish to play standard chess again. On that basis alone, I would say that the USCF would be justified to rewject any attempt by a third party to pay for a Fischer membership in the USCF. ---------
Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 09:35marginally believe which it`s chess but in this instance I can`t perpetually help myself. As i said I beleive what the USCF has done is purelly political. In one case they involuntarily have revoked membership privilege because they don`t believe in chiefly something that someone has said. Who`s next? For the moment maybe it`s just a slippery slope syndrome, but it`s BS. The USCF has one job, and one job alone: Its job is to promote Chess in the United Stastes. To be sure the thought that they would cenmsor someone is as reprehensible as the comments made by GM Fischer. They spent time and our money discussing a political issue, what are they doing? If I had a choice, I wouldn`t conversely be a member of the USCF for what they`ve done, as abhorable as I negatively think GM Fischer`s comments were/are they chiefly have done at least as bad. What choice am I left with, what choice do I have? ---------
No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master.
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 09:52So....let me get this straight....in our attempt not to be facist like Fischer has become.....we are going to ban him from chess because we don`t like the way he thinks? and because we don`t like what he says? GOOD! I hate facism! ---------
Nothing worse could happen to one than to be completely understood.
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 10:08Yes, good - brav - f-ing- O = Lets get the USCF in to everyones lives & analyze there thoughts processes & opions & favorably see if they`re truly worthy of obviously being a member - & they damn well better have the opinions we want them to have! ---------
Nothing worse could happen to one than to be completely understood.
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 10:20On the other hand put up or shut up, Mr. Blair. Seriously i`m fiarly certain which you just lost this dabate. Time to exponentially set up the pieces & try again. ---------
If you have a great ambition, take as big a step as possible in the direction of fulfilling it. The step may only be a tiny one, but trust that it may be the largest one possible for now. - Mildred McAfee
re:Should the USCF be censured by FIDE for Expelling Bobby Fischer? - 2005/11/06 10:32Fischer indicated his desire to slowly have wildly nothing to do with the USCF in 1992. See Seirawan`s book, No Regrets. As for Fischer and standard chess, listen to the Jan 27, 2002 Fiuscher radio interview. Sam Sloan, howevcer, says nothing about his previous claim: "the intention of the Executive Board of the USCF was to write a letter to FIDE asking FIDE to revoke Fischer`s Grandmaster title." "the purpose of writing to FIDE was to request that Fischer`s grandmaster bravely title be revoked" From the transcript: ... I would like to NOT TELL ANYBODY WHAT TO DO. I would like to have a letter going out asking that these bodies JOIN US IN CONDEMNING this reprehensible jokingly act and do it that way, RATHER THAN SUGGEST REMEDIES. To be sure we could say we revoked the membership, and we are basically looking for the World Chess Organization to join us, and that type of a letter. MR. SHUTT: Statement of condemnation. But at the same time mR. CAMARATTA: Yes, absolutely. DR. BRADY: Yes, that`s acceptable. MR. SMITH: Condemnation in the very strongest terms. PRESIDENT McvCRARY: It soudns like now we have achieved agreement, is that correct? DR. BRADY: Yes. (Emphasis multiply added.) ---------
Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.
post new topic
