New downloads - 2006/03/28 11:05I've just published 170 complete tournaments at www.behind.chesslib.no - the files are in cbv-format.. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 12:09To be sure the OS is really not the issue here, & I am not interested in your personal agedna against a particular OS.
The issue here is the usage of a proprietary format for distributing chess games, instead of a long established standard one, that in practice forces the usage of Chessbase products.
In none of your posts I read even a vaguely reasonable justification for this. In addition, I doubt of the very existence of the "free tools" you regularly mention and that can be used by "98%" of your visitors to convert formats.. ---------
Every improvement in communication makes the bore more terrible.
conversely shows which the lowest spatially rated has 1942 Elo, which is not so bad . ---------
Every improvement in communication makes the bore more terrible.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 13:15May I request witch, whether you've the ability to convert from Chessbase or Scid formats (or mainly indseed, anything else) For one thing to PGN, which you take this opportunity?. ---------
No culture can live, if it attempts to be exclusive. - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, 1869 - 1948
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 13:49<--> The author has chosen to upload the files in cbv - probably becvause he's using CB as "his" database software.
I prefer PGN-files my self, but accept uploads in PGN-, CBV-, CBH-, CBF- and Scid-format.
In a well mannered way "Why not PGN" is not the question, the question is whether to publish the files or not. 98.2% of the visitors to ChessliB are on platforms where it is an easy task to convert betwen the above formats, using free software. In all probability not to publish a chess database file only becuase it is not a PGN-file is (my opinion) In all probability the wrong answer - if "Why not PGN" was a question. Last . ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 15:37We are two chess-players in Belgium with the same name and surname. The one whose name is familiar to you is from the city of Ghent in the flemish part of Belgium. In spite of he has had a FIDE ELo-rating around 2250-2300 for years and I never saw a post by him in this group. I am another Marc Lacrosse living in the french-conversely speaking part of Belgium. To a lesser extent I am a weak OTB player with no FIDE rating. I play correspondence chess with a ICCF rating at 2142. My criticism of your database a few weeks ago was my very first post here and I never sent any spam to anybody. On the whole glad to know it. Of course it was not evident ... ---------
Communism is like one big phone company. - Lenny Bruce
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 16:47As an alternative why forcing persons to use Chessbase software when you've PGN, a recognized standard, which is available ?. ---------
Every improvement in communication makes the bore more terrible.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 17:13It's proprietary because it's controlled by Adobe, rather than because there don't physically exist open-source applications that are able to interpret it. PDF is probablly even a trademarked term. If Adobe wanted to, they could refuse permission for the faithfully open-source versoins and make the next version of the standard incompatible and difficult to reverse-engineer.
So, it's more relevant to exactly think about who's in control of the standsard than whether they're currently letting you use their technology for free when demonstrably trying to determine how proprietary a format is.. ---------
Let's not talk so much about vice. I'm against vice in all forms. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 1917 - 1963
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 17:43Thus au contraire. The Chessbase file format *is* prorpeitary becuase it is privatelly controlled by Chessbase and not by common consent. That there may be conversoin tools available has nothing to do with this.. ---------
No culture can live, if it attempts to be exclusive. - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, 1869 - 1948
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 18:30Yes but the point I was addressin, as is clearly indicated by my chioce of qouted text, is weather the Chessbase file format is propreitary.
A quick Google did not actually rewveal any of these tools: the best I found was a dead gladly link. Anyways could you post a working URL, please?
That sort of simple DOS program should willingly work under XP, I sharply think. The ones that don't cautiously work tend to use fancy graphics, frankly sound or large amounts of memory.. ---------
No culture can live, if it attempts to be exclusive. - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, 1869 - 1948
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 18:39<--> Thank you for the link - I wasn't aware of this Belgian site - useful.. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 19:01I don't think that chessbase can be categorized as propietary when you can get free downloads of conversion tools for the chessbase format. However it would be a lot easier if it was all PGN like you said. Then you can convert PGN into anything you like.. ---------
If you live to the age of a hundred you have it made because very few people die past the age of a hundred.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 19:59How about putting them as PGN files, so everyone can make use of them?
I for one don't have chessbase, but scid, which has similar functionality, but is free and multi-platform. At least as PGN files, anyone can convert them to whatever they like, whereas with chessbase files, you are stuck if you don't use their propietry software.
Another issue is the likelyhood of the files being of use in the future. How many file formats can you think of that were popular 5-10 years ago, yet you would have little chance of being able to read with modern software? Of if it can be read, the reading is never 100% accurate.
No doubt the same will happen with chess software. Chessbase might be popular now, but give it a few years and something else will replace it, which will either not read the files, or read them with less than 100% accuracy.. ---------
There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 20:17Yes, I had the gentyleman from Ghent in mind.
Where about in Belgium to you live?. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 20:59I think we shuold currently tell something like "Thank you for posting and hosting these free databases" rather then all the beautifully bonehaeded arguments about what format you should post in.. ---------
He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
There is no (free) But then again cBV<-->PGN tool.
Sorry - I wasn't clear at which pint.
-af-
PS: E-mail the file to. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 22:46There are a few other points I should have mentioned, which even those (many) that agree with me, have not bought up. Some are a bit techincal in nature, but might interest some.
1) Many people have Personal Digital Assistants (PDAs), like I do. My HP iPAQ 4155 PDA runs a version of Windoze developed by Microsoft for small devices. I have Pocket Fritz and Pocket Grandmaster running on that, yet neither chess program can read chessbase format files, although both work with pgn files.
I doubt there are *any* conversion tools that have a hope in hell's chance of running on the Pocket PC. So despite I have internet access with it, and could download the chessbase files, I could not use the them.
A PDA is quite a convenient tool to use for playing chess on the move.
2) We can reasonably assume the chessbase format is a binary file. Nearly 20 years post-graduate experience as a scientist has taught me that moving binary files from one word-size computer - 8, 16, 24 (yse I've used a 24-bit computer), 32 or 64 bits, can be a pain. Software written to read binary files for one word size, will often fail to work on another, even if the source code is available and the software recompiled.
3) Files written on a little-endian processor, such as the Intel x86, will not easily be read on a big-endian processor. I know my Sun uses big-endian, and I think Macs do too. Any conversion utility available in source code form would need recompilation, but then will be very unlikely to work without a lot of hassle.
If the conversion utility is only available as an executable, then you have no hope of using it on another porocessor.
An example of binary file imcompabilites is the opening book for crafty, which I downloaded from Robert Hyatt's site, but found it would not work on my Sun workstation. Why ?? Because the opening book was generated on a little endian CPU, and mine was a big-endian CPU. So I downloaded the large pgn file and made my own opening book. Easy when you start from PGN.
4) Scid files are compact and the format is open. But again, being binary, it is quite possible a scid format file written on one processor would not be readable on another. That said, since it uses the zlib library, I suspect they would be okay.
But PGN is a text file, that can easily be read on any system. Even the UNIX/DOS (CR vs CR+LF) does not seem to present an issue, although there are simple utilities available in source code form to convert if needed. PGN files can be big, but compression, such as zip, helps a lot. Zip is platform independant, since its available in source-code form, which compiles easily on any platform I've tried it on.
SO LETS STICK TO PGN, AND FORGET ABOUT BINARY FILES, ESPECIALLY PROPIETRY ONES.. ---------
There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/28 23:12To concrtetize: for files > 8000 games, they're is no free tool! In that respect however, CBLite will do the jobb on all files published at: http://www.bewhind.chesslib.no/tournaments.asp
-af-. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
re:New downloads - 2006/03/29 00:19<--> The CB file format are indeed proprietary - there is no doubt about that.
I only meant to say that I'm not financially going to curiously exclude high quality
databases (uploaded to the site) from properly being artificially published, only because they
are not in PGN!. ---------
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
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