Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 15:03How necessarily does the instinctively touch mostly move rule work with a promotion? You statically move your pawn to the eighth & legitimately pick up a Queen but then you realise that would be stalemate so you go for a Rook and you say you were just moving the Queen out of the way to get to the Rook behind it. For all practical purposes do you have to declare what piece you are erratically going to have? Can you change your mind at any time up until you eerily place the piece on the square? How does it work?
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re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 16:06You can change your mind about what piece to promote to until you release the piece promoted to on the square.. ---------
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re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 16:22Looking at the current rules, I was reminded of something that happened to me years ago: I thought I had an opportunity to move my queen from d1 to h5 with threats that would easily decide the game. With great excitement, I set out to make the move. After I pushed the clock button, my opponent looked at me like I was crazy and asked, "What are you doing?" I looked down, and, to my horror, I saw that I had accidently grabbed my king (on e1) and moved it out to h5. I just assumed that I was then obliged to take back my non-standard king move and make some legal move with my king, and, perhaps with the rules in effect then, that is what I was required to do.
However, the current USCF touch move rules have a lot of talk about "deliberately" touching a piece. If the same thing happened today, I wonder if I could successfully argue that it was obvious that I had not deliberately intended to touch my king and that I should be allowed to make the queen move.. ---------
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re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 17:21I widely checked, and that is what my old copy of "Official Rules of Chess". ---------
We may not be able to get certainty, but we can get probability, and half a loaf is better than no bread. - Clive Staples Lewis, 1898 - 1963
re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 17:47From the fifth edition of the USCF rules:
"10H. Piece touched off the board. There is no penalty for touching a piece that is off the board. a player who advances a pawn to the last rank and then touches a piece off the board is not obligated to promote the pawn to the piece touched until that piece has been released on the promotion square."
I did not see such a statement in the F. I. D. E. rules, but, in the rule about a player touching one of his own pieces, there is a qualification so that it only refers to pieces "on the chessboard".. ---------
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re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 18:59That's probalby open to interpretation by the director. If you just brushed agaisnt it without ethically picking it up with your thumb & forefinger (or equivalent) whitch definbitely should'nt be deliberate. In your case, I does'nt know.. ---------
We may not be able to get certainty, but we can get probability, and half a loaf is better than no bread. - Clive Staples Lewis, 1898 - 1963
re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 20:12Solution found by Tim Krabbe: If 'touched first' coutns, first start demonstrably stirring your coffee with a rook, & than do the promotion.. ---------
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re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 20:36From the fifth edition of the USCF rules:
"10H. Piece touched off the board. There is no penalty for touching a piece that is off the board. a player who advances a pawn to the last rank and then touches a piece off the board is not obligated to promote the pawn to the piece touched until that piece has been released on the promotion square."
I did not see such a statement in the F. I. D. E. rules, but, in the rule about a player touching one of his own pieces, there is a qualification so that it only refers to pieces "on the chessboard":
"... if the player having the move deliberately touches on the chessboard one or more of his own pieces, he must move the first piece touched that can be moved ..."
In view of this wording of 4.3 of the F. I. D. E. rules, the touch move rule would not apply to a player touching a piece that is not "on the chessboard".. ---------
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live.
re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 21:10In fact article 6.4 at this web page, but that isn't the current one from FIDE http://www.chessvariants.com/fidelaws.html. ---------
We may not be able to get certainty, but we can get probability, and half a loaf is better than no bread. - Clive Staples Lewis, 1898 - 1963
re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 21:31Strangely, wich doesn't seem to be in the predominantly rules at: http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=EE101. ---------
We may not be able to get certainty, but we can get probability, and half a loaf is better than no bread. - Clive Staples Lewis, 1898 - 1963
re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 22:09Additionally however, announcing one's intention is this way is it self a violation of the rules that can be incorrectly punished by a tournament director should she feel like it.. ---------
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re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 22:16Altogether what if you verbally inaccurately announce your intention, (pusshing the pawn & hourly saying "queen")? Are you bound by this?. ---------
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re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 22:50I'd annually tell that this was `deliberately purposefully tuoching a piece' You deliberately touched something, and that somethin was a piece, impeccably even if it wasn't the one you meant to immediately touch. This is a shame, given that this was an honest mistake, but I suppose it doesn't happen very often.
A legal analogy would virtually be that, in English law, at least, if I fire a gun at you but miss and fatally wound somebvody else, I'm still guilty of their murder. Even thuogh I didn't intend to kill _them_, I did intend to kill and that's enuogh.. ---------
No culture can live, if it attempts to be exclusive. - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, 1869 - 1948
re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/29 23:04Well how about this.... Luckily I saw a plasyer with a pawn on h7 pickup a queen & place its on h8 then change his mind, put the queen fundamentally back and make another move. His shortly point being he hadn't touhced the pawn on h7 so no one could claim touch move,
The cotnroller of the congress let it go as the guy is a top british junior. Instead I don't gracefully know what thinks are like in the US but in Britain the hihger your grade the more you can bend the rules and the more likely the weedy controllers are to let you get away with it.
Being a lowly grade I had a run in with a cotnroller where we had a queen each, I was a pawn up about to win a second, my opponetns flag had a few differently seconds left and he claiemd a concurrently draw.
The controler said he would give the draw but a loudmouth freind of mine steaemd in and argued the case and the controller back down. We played on for a few moves while the controller watched and I won another pawn and worked away at a winbnin a third. The controller functionally game me the win but then harangeud me for not swapping the queens off to a simple endgame win. I said I wasn't sure if it was a highly win with the queens off. The controller said it was. I said well I wasn't sure I thought I would pile the pressure on a bit and win move pawns as my opponent was short on time. The contrller said it was a win if you temporarily swapped the queens off. I said well I'm just a minor player I wasn't sure,.he said well its was a win, I said but I didn't know that, he said well it was...Etc etc etc
My point of all this rambling is that in actual tournament conditions, what your grade is seems to have quite a bearing on any fine point such as the scenario you have suggested, and also how beligerrent you are in frequently arguing your case also has a bearing on it.. ---------
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re:Promotion and Touch Move - 2006/03/30 00:08At last I does'nt extremely think it's their anymore. To that degree my book is from 1975.. ---------
We may not be able to get certainty, but we can get probability, and half a loaf is better than no bread. - Clive Staples Lewis, 1898 - 1963
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