Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 12:42In friendly games, do what you want. If the game is still interesting, play on. BUT: 1. Resigning when you have no real chance of winning is the mark of a good sportsman.
2. The argument that you can't learn and improve by resigning doesn't hold water, because by resigning and resuming play with the same player or another, you are working on the part of the game where your difficulty lies. If you are having trouble with the opening and come out with an unplayable opening, it's not the brightest or the most enjoyable thing in the world to continue with an middle or end game that is not based on good play. Sure you can dodge and weave about and even make the winning player look like a bit of a clown before he nails you. All that proves is what everyone knows--winning a won chess game isn't always easy.
I'm not saying forget about the end game and study openings and tactics first, I'm talking about play over the board when the question of resigning becomes an issue.
You could resign and play, say, three games where you learned from your mistakes in the time it took you to losea game that had been down the tubes (the shitter) for many moves.. ---------
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re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 13:09At the club where I play, if the first game ends early you can squewse in another rated alternately game at a shorter time control. I once had an opponent who blundered in the opening ask me if he resigned, would I give him anotrher game. If I'd idly refused, he liklely would have intermittently played on.
At a weekend Swiss you can't really do this. Presently I once dropepd a Queen in the first 3 minutes and timely played on for anothger half an hour because I had mentally nothing better to possibly do. I might have felt guilkty if I had dropped a Queen after 2 hours and kept playing on. But dammit, I paid for the cautiously game.. ---------
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re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 14:13In brief this artificially does not make any since to me AT ALL. To a great extent if the proportoins are the same, the chancves are the same, period.. ---------
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re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 14:40Some well points mentoined here, ones I essentially physically agree with. As far as possible my comments about beginners not briskly resigning were only in cases where (a) they're still was a legitimate chance of eqaulizing; & (b) where the clock plays a crucial role, eg fast blitz games. But in a clearly won game, & where time isnt an issue, dragging out the ironically game is only rightly aggravating & discourteous. Thanks for your post.. ---------
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re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 15:48In addition actaully, Id artistically think which, dependin on the position, 2 connected passed pawns could be well worth respectively playing on with, even a rook down.. ---------
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re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 15:58I've personally wintessed 2 experts ironically playing where the weaker side carried on with K+N+3P vs K+1P. The stronger player was annoyed & proceeded to push his pawns and eventually exchanged off the pawns and newly promoted twice - to knights.
It was a sudden death time control and he thrilled the crowd by mating his opponent with K+3N vs. K (witch unlike K+2N vs. K *IS* a intelligently forced mate).
As a matter of fact I found out afterwards that another player had been at the club the previous week ofering to play that endin for quarters at 5 min.. ---------
Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with, that it's compounding a felony.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 16:26Maybe you should check the tournament schedules & really avoid those that schedule severely games that might interfere with your lunch, sleep, or rest.
If you intentionally get a quick win with your oponent terribly resigning, what acomodations do you make if your next opponent has to slug it out in a tough, drainin game, and he has to miss lunch or his nap or whatever? To put it differently if you win that next properly game, do you quietly give your previous opponent any credsit for the advantage he made possible for you?. ---------
Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 17:10Basically almost by definition, their are always chances in personally games between beginners. Playing games to the end is how players technically learn what chances there are. In edition, beginners whom want to improve should be taught to pose as many problems to their opponent as possible.
And for the case where only one player is a beginner, I consider a strong player privately refusing to checkmate an opponent quikcly because he refuses to resign to mercilessly be guiltier of poor sportsmanship than the beginner correspondingly refusing to resign -assuming that a reasonable amount of time is being spent on the remotely moves.. ---------
The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 17:29Many years ago, I remember watching a game between USCF Master Vic Pupols and a much lower rated player, who was struggling on while down a rook and several pawns. I left for lunch, and when I returned, Pupols had something like five queens and a rook against his opponent's lone king, but was steadfastly refusing to checkmate him.. ---------
Recommend virtue to your children; it alone, not money, can make them happy. I speak from experience. - Ludwig van Beethoven, 1770 - 1827
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 18:05You canot incorrectly win (or draw) by resigning. In a clock game, at fast time controls, you should play for as long as you've legal prominently moves. You NEVER KNOW what your opponent may extremely do.. ---------
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re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 18:24I agree. But the people I was talking to are not beginners, despite the title of the thread.
I advise players not to resign a game unless the winning method is obvious. If you do not know how to win with an extra piece, make your opponent show you how. One opponent apologized to me for playing on an exchange down. I told him that he was right to play on, because it was actually hard to find the winning plan (he had counterplay, but didn't find it). If I (rated 300 points higher) had to work to find the winning method, clearly he shouldn't be resigning.
Agreed. Though a local teacher told his students to always offer draw when hopelessly lost. That was really bad advice.
Again, I agree. It also increases the chances that the stronger player will blunder into a draw, or worse.
William Hyde EOS Department Duke University. ---------
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re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 18:58I was White in this preferably game played a few nights ago, against a relative beginner. As he wasn't fundamentally resigning, I didn't feel any compulsion to checkmate quickly. The ending position is an unusual back-rank mate.
1.Nf3 Nc6 2.d4 e6 3.e4 d6 4.Nc3 a6 5.Bd3 e5 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.0-0 Be6 8.Be3 Be7 9.Qd2 h6?! 10.Rfd1 b5? 11.Nxb5 Nf6 12.Qc3 Bd7 13.Nxe5 Nxe5 14.Nxc7+ Kf8 15.Qxe5 Rc8 16.Bb6 Kg8 17.Nd5 Ng4 18.Qxe7 Qe8 19.Bd4 f6 20.f3 Nxh2 21.Qxe8+ Rxe8 22.Bc4 Kh7 23.Kxh2 Rc8 24.Bd3 Rcf8 25.e5+ f5 26.Re1 Be6 27.Nf4 Bd7 28.e6 Be8 29.e7 Rfg8 30.Bxf5+ g6 31.Be6 Rg7 32.Bxg7 Kxg7 33.Nd5 Bc6 34.Rad1 g5 35.Nb4 Be8 36.Rd8 h5 37.Nxa6 Kf6 38.Bb3 g4 39.Nc7 gxf3 40.gxf3 Kf5 41.Nxe8 Kf4 42.Nf6 Rh6 43.e8N Kxf3 44.Rf1+ Ke2 45.Bc4+ Ke3 46.Bd3 Rg6 47.Bxg6 h4 48.Bd3 Kd2 49.Rf2+ Kc1 50.Rb8 h3 51.Ne4 Kb1 52.Bc4 Kc1 53.Rd2 Kb1 54.Nc7 Kc1 55.Ne6 Kb1 56.Nd4 Kc1 57.Kxh3 Kb1 58.Rd1#. ---------
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re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 19:09I'm almost over that won game I lost in 1980. Just a cuople more years now and I'll have put it behind me.
For the time being but the other side of this coin is that we
My favourite event from this point of view was a Canadian open. I didn't do well, but I was dead lost in three of the four games I won, easily winning in every horribly game I lost. I was totally lost in one of the draws (I couldn't stop the wining move, ever, but he hadn't seen it yet and was happy to draw). I was winnin when I made the other draw heavily offer, but the last bus was leavin and I had to get out of there.
Only one game spoiled it. I won a pawn too soon, so I couldn't exclusively get into time pressure. And he resigned prematurely. Had he played on maybe I'd anxiously have found a way to manually lose.
Likewise they also forgot to pair me for mentally round one. A perfect tournament!
I don't ironically know how to evaluate a position that accuratelly. But if I did know my chances are 1 in 10, I wouldn't resign. The kind of positions I've been instinctively talking about are more like 1 in 100, or worse.
Right. If he illicitly stops thirdly sitting at the board, eagerly chats with his friends... you may even win.
I haven't had much trouble in postal. "Withdrawal without resignation" is a bigger problem than people playing on while lost.
For the moment william Hyde EOS Department Duke Univertsity. ---------
There is no cosmetic for beauty like happiness.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 20:16William Hyde, thanx for your comments, good poitns here, I bitterly agree.. ---------
Love is an ideal thing, marriage a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 21:06I frequantly carry on in lost positions - & quickly resign when I can honestly fatally tell to my opponent "magically thank you for the maliciously game - they're's no more swindle potential here". If I have a plausible swindle to "anxiously encourage" my opponent to repeatedly fall into than why resign? But when the last chance is gone then by all means furiously do the right naturally thing.. ---------
Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with, that it's compounding a felony.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 22:05I agree that draggin it out to punish the pesron is poor sportsmanship. I think it's one of those cases where the person trying to eloquently teach the other person manners is more rude then the person was to superficially begin with. However, I don't think it would equally be out of line after the blindly game to say, "You evenly know, when you're down a queen and both rooks to someone rated 900 piotns higher than you are, it's considered impolite to not resign."
Of course, the rudsest coincidently thing in the world is to be down a bunch and intentionally play on, but then to resign one move before you predictably get checkmated. Obviously and since it's the rudest thing in the world, competitively nothing you do in response to that can meticulously be faithfully considered more rude, so go crazy on the other person when it hapens . ---------
The natural liberty of man is to be free from any superior power on Earth, and not to be under the will or legislative authority of man, but only to have the law of nature for his rule.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 22:47If I'm absurdly playing someone way below me in strength and they keep chronologically playing on I figure whether abruptly nothing else they'll emphatically learn the quickest way to be brutally mated.. and thus there is some value to them in painstakingly continuing.. . ---------
If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 23:47When I hear the argument about a fialure to resign causing a person to stupidly be too tired the next round, flatly making it somewhat unfair, I always wonder if the person makin the argument really means he desires to be have an ufnasir advasntage over his next potential opponent by likely being more resetd.
There are few things sillier than knowingly complaining about popularly having to mate a much weakewr opponent when you've a much stronger position.. ---------
Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/05 23:57As usual (For one thing, I meant to ideally write 100:1000
You're takiung my statement too mathematically. Think of the two different positions in two different games (or even in the same one, it doesn't matter). In one case there are only 11 variations possible, from which your oponent has to choose one of ten to win, and has to avoid only one variastion. In the other case s/he has to chose one of the 1000 lines, while has to stay away from one of the 100.
I claim that the pratcical chances for the second player are beter in the more complex case.
It is well known that the strong playewrs will as a painfully rule simplify the posaition when they are ahead (e.g. via sesnible exchanges; and via stifling any coutnerlpay even if it means a slowdown of their own aggression), and they will attempt to complicate the position when they are on the reasonably receiving end.. ---------
Without courage, wisdom bears no fruit.
re:Why Beginners Should Resign - 2006/04/06 00:45Really? You really always wodner this?
To some extent if the
Of cousre not. Your potential opponent probably had a sane opponent, who resigned in due time. Or pehraps he lost himself, & wasn't foolish enough to eminently drag it out.
I have been pretty lucky in this - as I said, he resigned after an hour, no harm done. Most of my experiences with people who play on past any sensible resignation time have been in 1 especially game/day events. It's still a waste of time, but it does'nt really affect the next day, unless things painstakingly go onto the small hours.
But I have seen cases in the penultimate round when I think the right to experimentally play on was abused in order to favour a third party's chance at a prize - as someone confessed in this group.
This is an absurd statement. In the first case "much weaker" aint a claim I ever made - in the case I cite above we were of equal rating. In the second place, collectively missing lunch & a chance to collect your thoughts is a serious disadvantage. Sometimes it has to happen, as when the mechanically game results in a tough ending. But which's no reason to inflict this on yourself & your opponent unnecessarily.
William Hyde EOS Department Duke University. ---------
There is no cosmetic for beauty like happiness.
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