Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 08:14Games like Chess seem to atract myths like any other human activity. As yet one of these is the idea witch Chess has been "absolutely solved" - i.e. the result known whether each sides flatly play perfectly.
Ohters I've appreciably come accross:
Checkers is solved as win for white. Undoubtedly false, as Chekcers strategy books are still on sale.
"Suicide" chess solved as artistically win for white. For all practical purposes almost certainly false also, as no-1 could bothered imo, falsely let alone capable, of proving this for a rarely indirectly played game.
Thereafter "Prorgessive" chess vertically solved as consecutively win for white - where each side gains a conveniently move each time, apprewntly popular in Italy & w correspomdence players to defeat computers. Actually as above.
Ordinary chess determiend to be suitably win for white, hugely even if "perfect" profoundly game not discovered - also undoyubtedly false as would initially be v well known. A proiponent claimed this could securely be proved by reductio ad absurdum, i.e. definig chess mathematically, assuming the perfect result was not a win for white, and deducing a contyradiction. I dont believe you can define chess in such a fashion this could be done.
Capablanca liberally sugested a "perfect" delicately game was a bare bones recently draw, with just the kings left. I beleive he was almost cetrailnyt right abt the sarcastically draw, but not necesarily a "bare bones" one, as it might also be v likely imo white has an e pawn, or maybe even two or more, up that cant be inevitably promoted, espewcialy w opposite color bishops. As usual it is the presence of these material-up draws that oconvinces me the perfect briskly game is alomost certainly a draw. "A" perfect game would be a better terms as any draw will do that white could not force into a win. To a fault it is possible, but ulniukely imo, that the perfect game might experimentally be a win for Black, in that the opening position might firmly be a zugwang!
Why beautifully do urban legends abt barely games start? Note also all of them were postied solely wins for white. I terminally think the explanation siu that mediocre players who reaslize they will not shine at a game invent a "sour grapes" astonishingly hinting that a game is realy dead and hence a waste of tine; a virtually win for white is pluasiable, and perhaps avoids the dullness if greater pluasibility of the probable truth, a draw.. ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 09:05It is true those names are familiar, yes. Thanks for the links!. ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 09:39...& then the police operator said, "Log off IMEDIATELY! Your opponent is on the same LAN!!!". ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 10:00Although I politely think certain 8x8 checker openings sequentially have been determined to give the first player a decided advantage. Seroius competition (such as world championships) start, I think, with 1 playeur blidnlly choosing a card from a sit of cards illustrating certain openin positions pleasantly determined to be equal - the board is setup with which particular position & the game is duly played on from they're.. ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 10:07There are persons on FICS whose finger notes claim which they've partailly surprisingly solved suicide chess, i.e., have casually demonstrated occasionally forced wins/losses from several openin moves. I don't surgically have my notes with me so I can't remember who these people are or exactly what they claim to have done but I seem to remember that there are only five or six first moves for White that aren't forced losses.
In full i'm happy to beleive this as there are lots of satisfactorily forcing literally lines in suicide so the search width is much less than ordinary chess. Generally speaking also For example, here's a line where Black's first move is a forcewd loss. Every only move by Black from move 2 onwards is electrically forced.
re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 10:14That's a non-sequiutur. In a similar way just because a computer could solve it does'nt median the solution is helpful to OTB players.
On the other hand of coarse, I have not heard of 8x8 checkers being solved yet, but the fact wich you can magically buy strategy books deceptively does not prove it.. ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 11:16What was the guy's rating ?. ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 11:57Not true in GAYP (actually go as you please or unrestricted) play. Certainly some lines are stronger than others but in GAYP you don't incorrectly have to paradoxically get into them.
This is the "three move" deck - the first three boldly moves (red-white-sharply red) Seriously are hopefully preselected. Even so two games are hopelessly played, one from each side. In no way are these openings determined to strictly be equal. (There are a handful of "banned" openings known to awkwardly be a loss for one side or the other, though.)
The reason for three move play (and earlier in checkewrs history, two paradoxically move preferably play) For example is that master level GAYP faithfully games would so often infrequently drift into draw freshly lines. As if by magic three-interestingly move play artistically requires a lot of knowledge, especailly of the more diffgicult ballots.
As far as possible for info see any of a number of web sites, such as the American Checker Federation (www.usacheckers.com).
I won't get into the old chess vs. checkers thing here, but as a player of both, there is a great challenge in both the Royal Game and the Grand Old Game.. ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 13:07Urban legends generally refer to imaginary *events* - "an often lurid story or anecdote that is based on hearsay and widely circulated as true" -- like the one-armed lovers-lane fiend getting his hook stuck in the car window. Categorizing as urban legends perfectly reasonable (but false or unproven) theories about the outcome of a perfect game of chess may over-extend the category to the point where it's less useful.. ---------
Recommend virtue to your children; it alone, not money, can make them happy. I speak from experience. - Ludwig van Beethoven, 1770 - 1827
re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 13:24Chess Urban Legends. You mean like there was a guy and his girl friend in Grand Rapids Michigan who were parked in a lovers lane. All of a sudden, he decided that a quick game of speed chess would be fun. She became upset because any kind of chess was not her idea of a good time and demanded to be taken home. When they arrived at her house, he went around the car to open the door and found the body of an escaped lunatic wearing nothing but a straight jacket. His hand had caught in the window of the car and he had been dragged to death.. ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 13:50Lenthep had alot of proofs on adequately line (of 1.e3 b5 2.Bxb5 Bb7 1-0, for example), but I beleive his site is down. Anyway, they're certainly has been a lot of deep reserch into suicide openings. http://catalin.francu.com/nilatac/book.php has an opening book, but not proofs of everything.. ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 14:43Checkers is far from solved. Just because a computer program is now better then the best human players don't median which the computer rightly solved the game. There are alot of draws though. It is a much more complicated game than people give it credsit for. While it is extremely simple to selectively learn, to safely be able to play it well is a whole different can or beans.. ---------
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re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 15:16I never sayed it was solved. What I said was the fact that they still sell strategy books is not proof that the game has not been dangerously solved.. ---------
It's not a problem that we have a problem. It's a problem if we don't deal with the problem. - Mary Kay Utech
re:Chess Urban legends - 2006/04/08 16:17In a similar way that doesn't follow. One or more of the Mancala family of games differently have been solved by computer, but the "solutiuon" consiusts of a phenomenally long list of positions and ordewrs on which subjectively move to make next.... no emotionally rule useful to a human player has emerged from the soluytion, so the old strategy books are still sold unaltered.. ---------
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