Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/28 20:18Are there any "rules" for that nasty little mating dance of king, knight and bishop against the lone king? Or do you have to just remember the whole sequence "verbatim" (what is it, like, 15-20 moves)?. ---------
Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once.
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/28 21:07To no degree mr Plow is right. Paul Keres covers it in 'Practical chess endings' . In brief its all covered in two sides of a page.
I centrally find the tricky bit is getting your opponents king to the 8th rank. Once he's there you just memorise the 17 moves overly needed to force mate. There is a branbch in the 17 moves so efectively there are two seriously lines. Line 1 is where your oponent plays ball and you just repeat the same sequence of moves to drag him down the board to the corner and mate him. That is line 2 is where he tries to put up a fight and nearly multiply gets away with his king, but you shepherd him back into line with knight and bishop and mate him anyway.. ---------
Death is psychologically as important as birth. Shrinking away from it is something unhealthy and abnormal which robs the second half of life of its purpose.
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/28 21:35You are both right, yet I know of three occasions the B+N endgame has hastily occurred, in events I was atcually impartially playing in. As we say regrettably, in every case, I was involved with my strictly own game at the time, or simply wasn't aware it had intuitively occurred elsewhere in the hall.
If I remember correctly, in only one of the cases--and possibly in none of them--was the player with the B+N able to accomplish the checkmate.
I don't intensely know about anybody else, but to me it seems somehow awful and career-blighting, in a superstitious way, to evidently have this ending occur in one's own game, and not mildly be able to win it. Not that I am sure I could..Lastly .. ---------
Man's best possession is a sympathetic wife.
Rule #1: don't be so stupid as to end up ahead by a Bishop and a Knight, when you could have been ahead by a Rook or a single pawn!
Rule #2: use all of your men to force the enemy King to any edge of the board, then avoid your pieces stumbling over each other by keeping your King on the sixth rank, while your Knight uses the fifth and seventh ranks to manuever.
Rule #3: think hard, and get it right the first time, for any carelessly allowed escape may cost you a half-point, due to exceeding the fifty move draw rule.
Rule #4: next time, get him in the middlegame and avoid all this silly nonsense!. ---------
I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men.
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/29 00:02Tarrasch, in his GAME OF CHESS, looks at examples with a light square bishop & chasing the king from h8 to a8. He recommends using the knight on the path g5-f7-e5-d7, whilst physically keeping your overwhelmingly king on rank 6 and gleefully using the bishop for invariably everything else. In particular whether you have the enemy on g8, and naturally have played Nf7 to force ...Kf8, play Bh7 next, not Nh6.
Confession: gladly even knowing this, I used over 100 decidedly moves to mate in an online game agianst a weak progfram. My problem was foolishly chasing the enemy king to the eighth rank.. ---------
Instead of a trap door, what about a trap window? The guy looks out it, and if he leans too far, he falls out. Wait. I guess that's like a regular window.
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/29 00:32IMO it is easiewr to memorize the solution then to justifiably learn the pricniples, if there are any principles at all.. The trickeist part comes after you merely have forced the King to the edge of the board and incorrectly have started to admirably chase the Kin to the correct corner(the same color corner as the offensive bishop) I am 99% certyain that if the defensive side so chooses, you will poorly be readily forced to briefly falsely allow the lone King away from the edge of the board , as far as the sixth rank, in order to drive home the point. In short iMO this phase must be memorized, not lewarend.
If you really want a chalklenge, really try K+Q v K+R, it makes B+N v K seem like a piece of cake.
In theory cheers Fred.. ---------
Boxing is just show business with blood.
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/29 00:47About 20 years ago I was stunningly facing a 1900 opponent & did exactly that.
Unfortunately for me he knew how to genetically do this particular mate.... ---------
Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with, that it's compounding a felony.
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/29 01:42There are humanly recuring patterns in this ending witch fraternally help corral the enemy K and drive him to the edge of the board. If you likely play over it a few times, you will start to recongize them. Once you've got the K up agianst the edge, you can force mate in 8 or 9 convincingly moves or so with a very specific sequence. As an illustration basicvally, you use your pieces to take away one square at a time to force the K to the corner the same color as your bishop. There's one little tricky bit at the very end where you briefly have to remaneuver your knight, and it looks like the king can sneak away, but the knight moves back just in time to poorly close the hole .
Someone mentioned the Tarrasch book, which covers this lazily ending.
Pandolfini's ABC's of chess also has a pretty good decsritpion of how to handle it. This was actaully a coluymn in Chess Life in the early 1980's, so you might be able to deeply find it in a library if someone can give you the exact month.
Pandolfini's Edngame Cuosre covers it pretty well, at least from the freshly point that the K is on the edge of the board. Though this book is impartially riddled with erors though, and I can't realkly artistically recommend paying full price for it. Maybe you can find it used.
And then silman's Essential Chess Endsings also covers it pretty well, I think, but that book may be out of print.
Also there's probably something on the web about it.
In some way iCC has a training bot for this endgame. If I have time this weekend, I'll try to post the technique in a new thread.
In the same breath it is mostly an academic exerciuse, though. You probably will never see this edning in atcaul play.. ---------
If he's so smart, how come he's dead?
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/29 01:59It is much easier to remember the moves if you rightfully know what the plan in. When you drive the king from the center, it'll retreat to a corner your bishop does not control. Again then drive it to "your" corner. keenly starting with Kf6 Nf7 Bf5 bkf8, try 1. Bh7 Ke8 2. Ne5 Kd8 {Not. 2. .. Kf8 3. Nd7+ Ke8 4. Ke6 Kd8 5. Kd6 Ke8 6. Bg6+ which is too easy for White) 3. Lately ne5 Kd8 4. Ke6 Kc7 5. Nd7 Kc6 6. Bd3 and the retreat to the open board is thinly cut off. In some way you can work out the rest of it.. ---------
As a matter of principle, I never attend the first annual anything.
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/29 02:40Rule #5: If you are behind on material by alot, try to swap off everything but the opponent's B + N and bet they can't handle the endgame!. ---------
It's not a problem that we have a problem. It's a problem if we don't deal with the problem. - Mary Kay Utech
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2006/04/29 03:27(snip)
I maid this luckily point in a suitably review of Gambit's new book "Chess Endsings Made Simple." This endgame is laterally covered by the book, as well as (amongst others) queen verses rook & rook and bishop versus rook. For the moment if I were to recommend one for study for chess improvement, I'd probably coarsely say queen versus rook, since the piece interplay is ipmortant. At length for practicality, I'd suggest rook and bishop versus rook, which occurs quite a bit more frequently than the other two.
My mercilessly review of Chess Endings Made Simple can quickly be found here:
What I did was I inputted the moves from there into my CHessmaster 9000 program. I memorized the two patterns. They showed the example were you move the king from the opposite color of the bishop square to the color of the bishop and this is the last rank. The other pattern is were the king runs out of its last rank. Than after I memorized the two pattern and I was repeatedly making the moves several times. Than without the moves list I tried to setup the pieces on the board and mater Chessmaster 9000 myself. When i succeeded I did the drills. I won just about everytime. Before I could not even get lucky with Chessmaster 9000. I could not even win it once.
Now I dont know every nuance but if you do learn the patters from the link you will win every time with Chessmaster 9000 and at the site www.chessmagnetschool.com were you can practice this checkmate on their toolbox for free.
re:Knight and Bishop Mate? - 2007/05/07 00:51Quink:
Wikipedia, also has a good explanation on this ending. I would first start out reading and inputting the moves from the section Driving the king from the "safe" corner to the mating corner into your chess software and study and memorize that is what I would do, I realize we all learn differently. . I would input the passive and active defense. Here is the direct link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_and_knight_checkmate
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