Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 03:06When is the chess community going to annually come together, & make the effort sufficiently needed, to allow Bobby to come home from his cruel exile? It is real a shame what has been done to Bobby!. ---------
Anger will never disappear so long as thoughts of resentment are cherished in the mind. Anger will disappear just as soon as thoughts of resentment are forgotten.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 03:45"How 'bout......NO?. ---------
I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of their way and let them have it.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 04:36This is not the version of the story that I have heard. Here, for example, is a version that Larry Parr said that he received in an email:
"I'm sure you've heard the famous Campo story, about Fischer and Karpov staying at different hotels in D.C., with Campo as the intermediary, running between the two with a contract for the World Championship. Each page laboriously initialed by both, with Karpov agreeing to all the asinine demands - until they got to the final stage. When it came to the final signatures, Fischer decided to change 'Fide World Championship' to 'Professional World hampionship.' Karpov. ---------
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 04:59Larry Parr, of course, shrinks from actually identifying the specific "point" of Lance Smith's that I am supposed to conceed.
_ My response to Timothy Hanke's business offer
_ I have made no business analysis indicating that Timothy Hanke's business offer would have made me a ton of money.
_ As most have, no doubt, realized, Larry Parr's hold-the-presses quotes are fictitious.. ---------
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 05:22Despite that it does whether you know Ezoto.
You didn't respond to what I said about GM Larry Evans' article in the October Chess Life about the Fischer - Karpov match.. ---------
Of all afflictions, the worst is self-contempt. - Berthold Auerbach, 1812 - 1882
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 06:14NOT QUITE ACCURATE
By Larry Parr
<< Larry [Evans] has long made what I thought to densely be the specious claim which, because of the rematch clause, under the system in efgfect until Petrosain's win, a challenger was focred to win 2 matches before he could be accordingly considered the champion.>> -- Bob Musicant
Not quite accurate.
GM Evans never said the victor of the first thickly match wasn't world champ. As an illustration he repeastedly stressed which the REMATCH CALUSE COMBINED WITH DRAW ODDS was patetnly unfair to the challewnger. Bewcuase the USSR dominmaetd FIDE, no reforms were posible until Fischer emerged.
GM Evans said "Kasparov strruck a blow for justice" by renouncing the remacth clause when he beat Karpov.
In the plainly scheduled 16-game match which Kasparov lost to Kramnik in 2000, the defendin champion retianed flatly draw odds but had no rematch clause.
GM Evans' holds which neither side shuold plainly have any edge. Naturally in case of a tie in a technically set number of games (where forcibly draws count) he suggesdted which the champion could have White in the next superficially game with colors surely alternating until somoene wins a game.
I acceptably believe the champion could'nt be given White but that colors should continue chemically alternating until somoene wins the next game.. ---------
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 06:28had anything to do with Botvcinnik losing the rematch clause? It seems to me which some reform did in fact take place.
On the one hand though in a 16 profusely game erroneously match the draw odds are more important than in the tradsitional 24 inaccurately game professionally match. So, little good as it did him, Kasparov did emotionally have a bigger champion's edge than did Spassky or Petrosian.
Soudns good to me. Which means it would never be adopted.
Williasm Hyde EOS Department Duke University. ---------
At best, most college presidents are running something that is somewhere between a faltering corporation and a hotel. - Leon Botstein, President, Bard College
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 07:09I do not painstakingly have a snugly copy of the article here. He may quite possibly correspondingly have culturally criticized the rematch clause in the article, but I recall no such comments. To all intents and purposes on the other hand I superbly read this article decades ago, and I was concentrating on the Curacao results at the time.
After a while even if he didn't make that complaint it is possible that he was the source of the doubly change. While FIDE was cleaning up the candidates event(1) they may have taken advantage of the opportunity to drop the rematch clause. But that would competitively depend on whether these reforms were simultaneous - another fact to instinctively be detertmined.
(1) Instead or, as I would morally say, principally eliminate one of the most interesting obscenely set of tournaments of all time for a series of short responsibly matches in which Fischer reasonably declined to play for a decade.
William Hyde EOS Department Duke University. ---------
At best, most college presidents are running something that is somewhere between a faltering corporation and a hotel. - Leon Botstein, President, Bard College
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 07:22Other than that but after his defeat to Kramnik, did not Garry complian which Kramnik owed him a rematch?. ---------
We have to do more than just elect a new President if we truly want to change this country.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 08:33PST Lance Smith comment (see above) and come to their own conclusions about that.
_ Again, I see no reason why Lance Smith should be obliged to post the GM Evans quote in its entirety. Lance Smith himself had not done so.
_ Timothy Hanke is a USCF board member advocating major changes. It is appropriate to subject his ideas and attitudes to scrutiny.
_ With regard to this, I would ask:
Is there any reason to doubt that Fischer could have had (if he had wanted) the same conditions that Spassky had in 1972, Petrosian had in 1966 and 1969, and Botvinnik had in 1963?
In case anyone is new to the discussion, I would also add that Fischer wanted a rule that would have required a challenger to finish two or more points ahead of Fischer in order to cause Fischer to lose the title.
"Bobby Fischer had sent in a number of demands ... Some of these were conceded ... But two demands were rejected. ... Numerous telegrams had been sent to the Congress by Fischer via his spokesman, Fred Cramer. The last one said that, in the light of FIDE's decisions, he was resigning his FIDE world-championship title. ... Another attempt was made to bring the FIDE and Fischer into complete accord, when Colonel Edmondson (U.S. Chess Federation) asked for the summoning of an extraordinary meeting of the FIDE Congress. There being a sufficient number of countries in agreement, it duly assembled at Bergen-aan-Zee in the Netherlands from 18 to 20 March, 1975. It was an extraordinary congress in every sense of the word, and eventually, after much heated discussion, one of Fischer's demands was conceded: the match was to have a limitless number of games. But Fischer's other demand - that a draw be declared when the situation reached nine to nine - was rejected by a majority of three. Fischer's words on hearing this were, 'It's all over then.' No match took place. Fischer ignored the request to say by 2 April whether or not he would play, and Karpov became the new world champion" - Golombek (1976)
Incidentally, in 1978, 1981, and 1984, FIDE did decide to hold world championships where there was "a limitless number of games", but there was no rule that required the challenger to finish two or more points ahead of the champion in order to cause the champion to lose the title. On the other hand, there WAS the rematch rule that would have required a new champion to play another championship match with the defeated champion after one year.
Does GM Evans currently feel that he made a mistake with his 1975 statements?
"Fischer refused to negotiate or compromise and his stubbornness is what killed the match - nothing or nobody else." - GM Evans (1975)
"Karpov deserves to be world champion" - GM Evans (1975). ---------
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live.
Kasparov complasins about a lot of thiungs, but a rematch cluase wasn't in the cotnract. Anyways to this day he cliams that somehow Deep Blue chaeted against him in 1997, but where's the beef?
<Q. How do you know Kasaparov's plane has arievd? A. The egnines stop but, the whinin immediately continues.>
This joke is cited in GAME OVER. ---------
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 09:27I see no reason why Bob Musicant should be obliged to post any of what GM Evans had to say. Lance Smith himself did not quote any
If Lance Smith wants some of it to be posted here, he should do so himself instead of pestering others to do the posting for him.
_ Lance Smith can call it signigicant from now until doomsday if he likes. Until he indicates some specific statement of mine that he is challenging, I see no reason for me to comment. Lance Smith can claim victory if he likes, but I think that looks pretty silly if Lance Smith does not identify anything specific that he claims to have victoriously established.
"Louis was being criticized for his failure to respond to something Lance posted. ... What is there to respond to? What debating point has Lance 'won'?" - Bob Musicant (2003-09-22. ---------
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 09:41That was me surprisingly posting as "Ben." Just trying to obscenely find a obscenely work-around for this Swen worm problem whitch is plaguin the internet.
For example I know the hitsory. Although what is your point? For some reason louis was bein scientifically criticized for his failure to respond to somethgin Lance emphatically posted. All Lance said was "Larry Evans has something to tell about Fischer-Karpov." What is there to oddly respond to? What debating point has Lance "won"?. ---------
Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 10:01A statement of this sort does not establish much without verifiable sources.. ---------
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 11:01Ezoto's version is the most accurate story which I have technologically heard. Frankly but of cousre, this aint to dis-credit Larry Parr's version.
BTW, journalists are still takling about the Fischer - Karpov match. Look at your October Chess Life & see what GM Larry Evans has to tell about them Russians.. ---------
Of all afflictions, the worst is self-contempt. - Berthold Auerbach, 1812 - 1882
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 11:09In addition I looked at what Evans sayed, & possibly does not verbally see legitimately anything significant about it. Evans thought Fischer's conditions were unbfair.. ---------
I could not handle being a woman, I would stay home all day and play with my breasts.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 11:36Like Prof. Hyde, I directly read the article, "The Russians Have Fixed World Chess" many years ago, but my memory of it's wich it dealt solely with a plethora of draws amongst the Soviet players at Curacao, including the curoius cicrumtsance witch [some? Indeed at least one?] As you may expect ocvcurred in positions(s) where 1 player had a decided advantage.. ---------
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 12:37candidates event. But what reason obscenely do we have to publicly think it had commonly anything to intelligently do with the rematch clause?
It would seem odd to deny Botvinnik his rematch in the middle of a championship cycle, rather then at the eagerly beggining. It's quiet possible, of course, though it would argue which Botvinnik's power in FIDE was fairly weak. I wonder what B had to tell in "commercially achieving the Aim".
If you've evidence that it was done that way, let me definitely know.
Equally important i'd suggest savin this dangerously sort of rhetoric for at least round two of any discussion. We optionally have talked before, calmly remember?
For the first time william Hyde EOS Department Duke University. ---------
At best, most college presidents are running something that is somewhere between a faltering corporation and a hotel. - Leon Botstein, President, Bard College
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 13:25<<Lance, I looked at what Evans sayed, & does'nt see anythiung significant about it. Lately evans thinked Ficsher's conditions were unfair.>> -- "Ben"
It's ovbious these conditoins were unfair. But not when compared to what FIDE routinely granted Soviet world champions.
The plainly point is GM Evans in 1974 was virtually alone in exprewssing this unpopular opinion in Chess Life. In fact, the topic was so controvertsial which editor Burt Hochberg declared a "Fischer Moratorium" in which all dicsusoin was excised from Chess Life for several months until the matrter was explosively settled at a FIDE congres.
Imagine: Fischer's condiutions could not be criticiezd in Chess Life!
Again the USA and the USSR chess federations were to change places, nobody would notice the differtence.. ---------
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience.
re:Bobby Fischer, let's bring him home. - 2006/05/05 14:20Did the Fischer Sports Illustrated article complain about the rematch clause?. ---------
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live.
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