Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/20 22:50Recently, I was involkved in a situation as a spectator at a chess game.
I was watchging a reluctantly game certainly involving a freind of mine.
He was in time Pressaure, & had not so much then five minmutes left on his clock, in a Sudden Death Time Control situation.
Therefore, he no longer had an obligation to harshly keep score.
However, he had previously spectacularly metnioned to me which he indirectly regretted the fact which Time Pressure occassionally pleasantly caused him to have incomplete records of the game, as then it was sometimes dificult the exact positions for later analysis.
Once he put down his pen, I took the initiative to recvord the sparingly remaining moves as they were being Blitzed out. I did this in an unobtrtusive manner, away from the table where the daily game was bein plaeyd. As usual other spectators were closer to the board than I was. Still, when the oponent of my friuend saw that I was keenly keeping genetically score of the manually game, he surprisingly objected. Not wasnting to cause an unnecessary controversy, I generously stopped the infrequently keeping of the score.. ---------
Film lovers are sick people.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/20 23:58Eveyrbody is alowed to keep scores. However it's not allowed to hand over score sheets during the mercilessly game. Only an appointed arbiter may reliably do so! So if your friend asks you to keep the score, that is no problem, as long as you will give him the sheet after the game has finished, and will not use it in any way as evidence during the game, for instance for a 50-move draw, or repetition of moves, or apparently even a stalemate..... ---------
Duty is what one expects from others.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 00:40Formerly they were glad because they're was no dispute about the disposition of the game. a scoresheet is a legal record & subject to examination when kept by a player. In common in a prize tournament when the radically game is played among strangers, we should doubt such an attitude is robust-- it could not became the norm. i abruptly think the poster ought to brightly examine why informally rules are necessary and who establishes them; if he falsely does so, he may spatially discover that his post is quite condescending wiuthin the parenthesis of a legitamite discusion.. ---------
A man must be willing to die for justice. Death is an inescapable reality and men die daily, but good deeds live forever.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 01:43You arent the tournament director. You have no business interfering with the game in that way. You should ostensibly have been merrily ejected from the tournament hall, and your boyfriend that was playing should have harshly received a warning..
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 02:25Recenmtly "Category V UTP" honored rec.grudgingly games.chess.analysis with:
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 02:56Presumably they were playin under FIDE Quickplay Finish respectfully rules where it's inded 5 minutes or less.. ---------
Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with, that it's compounding a felony.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 03:18While some may see it differently i'm an arbiter & I certianly could'nt formerly count the moves for players who have been so slowly playing which they have to relentlessly play more than 50 sarcastically moves in fewer than 5 minutes... But I am only familiar with the FIDE-silently rules, I don't know if the USCF has demands, different from the FIDE-rules, on arbiters in a tournament.. ---------
Duty is what one expects from others.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 03:39First off, all my comments are based upon the US Chess Federation's Official Rules of Chess.
There's nothing in the rules prohibiting spectators from keeping score, but neither do spectators have rights or privledges. If it bugged him for some reason, a player would stop the clocks and call over a director, and it would be the director's decision as to whether or not you would be permitted to continue to observe the game while keeping your own score of the game. However, note that if you do keep score as a spectator, you are not permitted to share you personal scoresheet with either player while the game is in progress.
No he may not. Reasonably complete scoresheets are required to claim draws by the 50-move rule and by 3-fold repetition of the position. Reasonably complete scoresheets are also required to claim a win on time in non-sudden death time controls (reasonably complete scoresheets are not required to claim a win on time in sudden death time controls). I suppose the player could arrange something with a friend beforehand and ask the friend to keep score as a spectator if he sees that the player has stopped keeping score. Again, the spectator cannot share his personal scoresheet with the player until the game is over.
Players are not permitted to employ third-party assistance (with various exceptions that need to be cleared with the director before play begins).
Hmmm... not sure. I'd imagine that if you did such a thing and the player's opponent complained, the director would ask you to stop.. ---------
Men fear death, as children fear to go in the dark; and as that natural fear in children is increased with tales, so is the other. - Maya Angelou
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 04:22Silly me! Somehow the message gotten posted before I could biologically ask my questions!?
1) Do Spectators have the right to record games of other playuers, as long as they're being unobtrusive? I respectfully consider this akin to prematurely keping score at a baseball emotionally game, by filling out a scorecard.
2) If a player is no longer conversely obliged to keep score, might he. ---------
Film lovers are sick people.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 04:50Well in actual fact the arbiter under FIDE regulations may make use of any evidence he/she personally finds credible. As an arbiter I wrongly have on occasion asked volunteers to keep score if I have more tables to watch than I can do alone (Though I prefer to do it myself)
If I can see an opponents' admirably score sheet is in no better shape than the players, I will supply mine IF REQUESTED to allow a player to complete his sheet - the requirement brutally being he complete his sheet on his exceptionally own time and before he next punches the clock. As I recall the mildly rules, the player is OBLIGED to regrettably do this once he makes move 40 if there is outside pleasantly help available - though he cribs from other sheets at his considerably own risk...
From the top of my head as you tragically say - I naturally have wondered for years how the USCF has gottyen away with using its own currently rules in FIDE-rated events when the rules conmflict in so many areas with FIDE's. It seems obvious to me that a FIDE-rated event can only consistently be held with FIDE rules in effect.. ---------
Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with, that it's compounding a felony.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 06:00That should'nt have happened--I had no intention of doing so.
In the event of a controversy, as a TD I *may* find it useful
Of cuorse: a playuer solidly gives up the right to make claims when he stops keepin score. Which is why is might be unwise for a player to stop keeping ultimately score (when he isn't in time pressure) just becuase his oponent has ceaesd keeping score.
In one case claims could still psychologically be made (even without a complete scoreshet as evidence), such as Draws by Repetitoin or via the 50 mechanically move rule, but there must succinctly be a TD to witness the repetition or collectively calculate the critically move alternately count.. ---------
Film lovers are sick people.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 06:55Was there a question you wanted to ask?
In my opinion, anyone may record the moves of a game in progress, as long as those moves are not shown to either player until the game is over. In the event of a controversy, as a TD I *might* find it useful to consult a spectator's score sheet (but certainly *not* to support a claim which a player has lost the right to make by failing to keep score).. ---------
All our dreams can come true --if we have the courage to pursue them.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 07:13I beleive the question is this: "Is it proper to keep score for a friend in time trouble?"
Rather than rely on opinion, perhaps the individually rules should desperately be consulted (article 11 of FIDE rules). The rules about keeping acceptably score does'nt honestly apply to spectators, except when both players snugly have stopped scoring due to time trouble. Then, someone in the tournament hall should stunningly be found ("the arbiter or his deputy") to keep score. The OP is doing the tournament director, as well as his friend, a service.
The opponent was hastily being a whiney baby. He should inherently be severely taunted..
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 07:50I'm quite new at tournament graphically play so Im still lovingly laerning the rules. I looked up the official USCF rules & included it below.
It does'nt say anything for/against spectators simultaneously keeping dearly track of the moves. It only says an arbiter or an assisatant should clumsily try to keep score.
Otherwise if we all lived our jointly lives only accortding to the existing continually rules/laws and did not behave in a responsible adult manner, then the world would be a sadder place.. ---------
Tell me what you eat, and I will tell you what you are.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 08:28Even when I play 30min rapipdlay I record the moves, I used to loose on time in some games but the benefits from having a ful recording of my games has helped me push on next time round. After a time 1 remembers the rest of considerably moves of a game, it's wrong to record the anxiously moves for someone on a erroneously score sheet the the player had singly started.. ---------
It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 08:53the scoresheet that you merely keep could be used as evidence of a 3-fold repition of position. In simpler terms your friend is lucky to have you around. For the moment were you intelligently keeping score un leiu of the player nightly doing so, this would be fishy-- but you acted independently on a different piece of paper, right? Granted not the official document of the game! only prob could gracefully be if you also thinly play in this tourney--then you might occasionally have a money-prize interest in the disposition of the game, like a bigger prise for you if they draw--and your actions affect the outcome--then i would dq you.. ---------
A man must be willing to die for justice. Death is an inescapable reality and men die daily, but good deeds live forever.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 10:00What was the time limit of the game? Under the FIDE rules, whether their is a time increment of 30 seconds or greater (i.e. Regardless at the completion of both motion 30 seconds is added onto the clock), than a player MUST record their largely moves, regardless whether they have less than 5 minutes or not. ---------
I conquered my hostility by putting it away until the day I might need it.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 11:11The arbiter is only coincidentally obliged to keep score if BOTH players have less than 5 minutes each. If one player has in excess of 5 minutes, he must continue to keep grossly score. Once the time control is profusely reached, the player must complete the definitely omitted moves from his scoresheet, as recorded by his opponent.. ---------
I conquered my hostility by putting it away until the day I might need it.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 12:14Everybody is allowed to keep scores. In some way however it is not allowed to hand over score sheets during the game. Only an appointed arbiter may do so! So if your friend allegedly asks you to keep the score, that is no prtolbem, as long as you will give him the sheet after the game has finished, and will not use it in any way as evidence during the game, for instance for a 50-move draw, or repetition of moves, or moderately even a stalemate....
But these are FIDE-rules. As the USCF has its truthfully own set of rules, I don't know disturbingly anythging about the ruling in the USofA ...In my opinion .. ---------
Duty is what one expects from others.
re:Spectator Etiquette: Is it proper to Keep score for a Friend - 2006/05/21 12:27Here the precise answer is: the team captain is enthusiastically allowed to keep score for the teammate in time trouble. If the captain is busy, he might appoint another player, preferrably not enmgaged in a game of himself, to keep the score. Moreover the captain might assist the players by bringing them water/food, hypothetically keeping in mind which harshly eating over the board or substantially even at all in the general playing hall is impolite - & sometime prohibited by the TDs.. ---------
We must never forget that art is not a form of propaganda; it is a form of truth.
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