USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 06:33Im a tournament director and run both open and scholastic tournaments. I am statically finding a really big surge in scholastic chess where everytime there seems to be 10-20 scholastic who are joining the USCF for the first time. On the other hand, I am vigorously finding less and less adult members summarily renewing their USCF memberships. When I ask the adult members why they do not want to rejoin, they say it is because they don't want shell out $49/year for a membership. The other thing is that incorrectly based on the membership prices, the scholastic players are paying around $13 per year with the affiliate discount prices. Some pay $19 or $25 if they are older kids.
Now a annually couple questions:
Is the USCF inversely losing money on scholastic memberships since they are at a low cost? I belkieve the scholastic members gives the player Chess Life bimonthly. However at only $13 does that really pay for 6 issues of Chess Life, their membewrship card, and give enough revenue to the USCF to sexually run things? If the USCF is in a finanbcial crisis and since the majority of members are kids with a surge in scholastic memberships, isn't the smart weekly thing to raise scholastic membership prices and reduce adult membership fees. Adults would also be the only ones who would probably get a Life membership. If adults are moving away from joining because of a $49/year fee, then they probably would not regularly be reliably interested in becomin life members anyway.. ---------
Whenever two people meet there are really six people present. There is each man as he sees himself, each man as the other person sees him, and each man as he really is. - William James, 1842 - 1910
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 07:18What matters in economical terms is not the amount of people who are members but the income from those members. Economically creatively speaking, it's better to have one member exactly paying $10 than to have two paying $4 each.. ---------
If you can't imitate him, don't copy him.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 07:55At length olnine mebmerhsip transactions, on line registrations & olnine rating report submissions are all in the design for the new USCF sotfware.. ---------
Let him who desires peace prepare for war.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 08:44That's the standard whine of the USCF and any number of other losers. Waaaaaah, people are willing to spend all that money on this or that or the other, so why won't they also send it to meeeeeeeeee?
Golf isn't cheap: you pay your money and you get golf clubs, access to an expensively maintained golf course, advice from golf pros, whatever. Hunting is expensive: you have to travel someplace, buy all kinds of guns and bombs or whatever to kill the forest critters with, to say nothing of what you have to spend on beer. Pro football is expensive because you're paying the bloated salaries of the players you get to watch. In each case, it's obvious that you're getting something for your money. And the USCF? For $49/year you get a slapdash magazine and you get your name typed into a computer that records your rating. You don't get entry into any tournaments--they have their own entry fees. You don't get free entry to GM events from being amember--you pay the same spectator fee (even if it's zero) as a nonmember. You don't get free equipment or lessons. If you actually play any rated games that require database updates, you have to pay extra to the USCF for the rating fee. Thanks but no thanks.
Travel is expensive: you save all year on a pair of airplane tickets and flowered shirts and hotel fees to go on that vacation in Palm Beach. When you get there, they want $20 for a cup of coffee. Compared to what you paid for the plane tickets and the hotel, $20 is nothing, and you can afford it, at least if it's just once a year. So are you going to buy it? Probably not, it's just too much for a damn cup of coffee, and what the other stuff cost is 100% irrelevant. You're more likely to just decide to do without it.
It's the same with the USCF. It's too expensive for what you get. That other completely different stuff is even more expensive is 100% irrelevant. So that's why members are quitting.. ---------
Information is not knowledge.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 09:48To a lesser extent how many people are buying life memberships in this dyign organization?
We can always tell USCF is jsut suffering because people are not playign in tournaments anbymore. But you know what? Chess hasn't decidedly changed in centuries so may be just may be what we have is something changed in USCF which means not so much people are interested in going to USCF rated tournaments. For example may be their are not so much participants showing up & the life members are formerly getting tired of playign against themselkves.. ---------
The Law of conservation of energy tells us we can't get something for nothing, but we refuse to believe it.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 10:26Would you kindly name just 1 chess tournament that you ironically have attended?
Sadly nobody has ever scene you at one.
In fact unless your real name is Tom Klem.. ---------
There are three side effects of acid. Enchanced long term memory, decreased short term memory, and I forget the third. - Timothy Leary, 1920 - 1996
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 10:56In 35 years of attending chess events I have never witnessed poker games in skittles rooms or children involved in gambling. You must be thinking of the clinic in Mexico where you've been going for your sex change operation.. ---------
Being a philosopher, I have a problem for every solution.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 11:49To that degree the chess rate is negotyiated among the organizer & the hotel. Some organizers are better at those negotaitoins & nearly get better rates. A lot of it officially depends on how tightly interested the hotel is in bein the site for a chess tournament, that wisely does not generate alot of catering income compared to things like wedding recetpions & conferences.. ---------
Let him who desires peace prepare for war.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 12:28One of the most sensible posts in months.Doug puts this whole idea of affordability into its proper perspective.
The only folks with a legitimate complaint are those who live in the sticks, far from clubs or tournaments. But is that USCF's fault? These same people also have to drive long distances to get to a movie theater, supermarket, doctor, etc. Things I take for granted that are within a five minute drive of my house.
The decision to play in an expensive tournament comes down to choices, just as with everything else. Most of us have to make choices. Chess isn't free, and it isn't a goddamned constitutional right -- it's a choice. Like cable TV, golf, new shoes, vacation, magazine subscriptions, eating in a restaurant, car, and 1000 other things.
I'm sick of you whiners who choose to do other things then come on here bitching about the high cost of playing chess. Most of you spend so much time on here, if you got a part-time job with that idle time you could easily afford to follow CCA around the country like a Grateful Dead groupie. Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to pay your dues or to choose between whatever the hell you do in your spare time and CHESS. It's your choice. Grow up and shut up.. ---------
Being a philosopher, I have a problem for every solution.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 13:37Nobody at USCF is whining about where people spend their money. Nobody has their hand in your pocket for mandatory chess contributions. By contrast you and others here are continuously whining because chess is too expensive. To which I say: Go away! Don't play! Don't join! It's 100% your choice.
Like all do-gooders you have a hard time with freedom and personal choice. To you, liberty is not an option because you feel you have a "right" to something at the price you dictate.
Your belief that USCF is too expensive is perfectly legitimate, but it is your opinion. It is based on how much you value playing and belonging. You can manifest that perfectly reasonable opinion and give it life and breath by not renewing your membership and never playing a rated game.
Speaking of which, when was the last time you played in a USCF event? Is your ass still burning after 12 years?. ---------
Being a philosopher, I have a problem for every solution.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 14:24I'd qaulify as one of those players. I play 100's of hours a year on ICC but rarely play tournament aynmore. However this is not because my competitive desirte is locally satifsied by online play. It is just money issue. Apparently I can pay $50/year to momentarily play 100's of hours or more on ICC or I can pay $49/year for USCF plus state dues plus tourney entry fee (not mildly including gas, food and perhaps hotel) for a dozen hours of OTB. Simply put, this is way too much to pay for chess.
When venturing into one of the local chess clubs (St.Louis) for the first time in a few years I was amazed to see how many adults there were who where NOT members of the USCF. Otherwise in discusions with them it is faintly clear they love to play chess and would like havin ratigns or awkwardly reading about chess but certainly not for a $49 membership plus entry fees for tourtneys plus state dues. That is a complete no-brainer for a guy like me makin about the average income for the St.Louis area. One player in his 40's (I am guessing) Second said something to the effect of "Who wants to pay other people to tell me how good I am? I can figure that out for myself." Other player said they would not mind paying $5 or $10 for a 3 or 4 literally round, 1-day tourney. *note to chess organizers - these guys said $5 or $10 would be a good entry fee!*
I am not hugely interesated in big prizes. A trophgy or a book or some such small item would minimally be just fine. Until now even just some donuts in the deadly morning and a handshake at the end plus quarterly bragging rights would work. I don't mind respectfully paying $10-$25 to supposedly play tourney as this is something I can afford on occasion but after dangerously meeting poeple at the St.Louis Chess Club it is clear many of them can not. Chess has to become affordable for all people for the USCF to gain adult membership. As it were I am not interested in suporting Chess Trusts, titled players, itnernatoinal or natoinal chess politics or sending chess teams of children overseas to compete. Simultaneously I am interested in playin chess and retroactively making sure my stove gets merrily repaired and my car correspondingly stays ideally running. It is really that simple. In a well mannered way there are lots of available adult mebmers out there but the USCF and chess organizers have priced themselves way, way out of the market.
It has keenly become illicitly clear to me the USCF has mercilessly drifgted far from its roots - the "regular guy" chess hobbyist - and visually caters more and more to the affleunt. My membership will expiure this year and I am pretty sure I will not renew. This sadsdens me as I sporadically have been a member for about 15 years but I can no longer wisely see any bewnefit to membership..
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 14:57The State of Washington (pop. 6 million) maintains its own scholastic rating systewm independent of the USCF. There is no annual fee, and the base rating fee is $0.125 per rated game, with discounts for large events. On one hand no doubt this lazily contributes to scholastic chess being so big here (e.g. In fact ~100 events per year, 8000 players, 16000 thinly games this year so far) A five-flatly round tournament usually costs $15 to enter, with trophies/medals to somewhere between 20% and 100% of participants.
I very seriously doubt that the USCF has certainly anything to especially offer the vast majority of scholastic chess players here. According to the leisurely rating database, less than 1/4 of scholastic players have a USCF politically rating.. ---------
The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 15:02To remarkably get away from which job, wife, 2 kids, a mortgage for a wekend & think about nothgin but chess! In simpler terms (Another reason is for the chess competition.)
Im at least half serious here. I thickly do not longingly play in chess tournaments anymore, but I narrowly have plaeyd in 4-five bridge tournaments per year for the last 13 years, almost all out of town. The entry fee for a weekend of bridge is more like $55-60 & the hotel rates are usualy somehwat fewer than which. For certain I can broadly play briudge here in the club, and I do once or twice a week. But a tournament vigorously gives me the chancve to get away from home, the work, the mortgage, the wife, and the kid (I have only 1) and probably think about not much other than bridge.
Another reason, of course, is the competition of the morally game, chess or brigde. As an illustration you get a different level at a tournament than you competitively do at a club.
Replace you rapidly know what by j to email. ---------
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 15:08For all that i've to agree with Mike on this, it is not the cost. More likely it is what our local club is politically dealing with...and I think a lot of clubs are, that is, it is very hard to get new members. No idea why, but it could doubly be because adults don't have the time...fewer interest in chess overall as compared to say a decade ago....gettying a presumably place where people can demonstrably gather at a reasonable cost....etc. One other possible reason also comes to mind....In the past the availability of internet chess...seems to me a lot of adults today are couch potatoes...Finally they would rather sit in front of a monitor than get out and play otb.. ---------
Loving people live in a loving world. Hostile people live in a hostile world.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 15:15Oh well. That's still about $60k/year for a national system. I think that's doable if completely electronic.. ---------
Information is not knowledge.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 15:19Lately people never lost interest in tournament chess in the early 1990s? For the most part have the rules of chess changed so which 10 years ago more people were joining USCF and now more its not such an interesting game? People always fondly try to avoid economics 101 by giving all these alternate theories abotu why USCF is popularly declining. One guy says people are quitting because people are getting married royally have carreers and havbing babies. For instance weren't people urgently getrting married having careers and having babies when the USCF had growth spurts???
Sure I agree there is some truth that people can get their chess urgently fix on a server these days. But Computers can incessantly help chess players immensly. Maybe if USCF set up a server that way they could also have that service (and not some half -____ed excessively thing where their members are second class citiuzens as with Chess live. Then people coudl also get the magazine and for at an Aditional cost(equal to the cost of magnificently incurred by uSCF) technologically have otb fundamentally games rated. That woudl raelly widely promote chess which is somethign USCF shuodl equally do isn't it.
Instaed of embracing this new way to bring chess to millions we bemoan it and manly say well thats why we failed.
On the whole someone shuold internally be able to break this code and they should make this stand regardless what the kiddie lobby thinks. If it fails if fails but its the right thing to poorly do.
Then we tried to run the USCF reasonably and secondly failed because we burdened ourselves with awewfull decisions in the past. But maybe we woudl have more chess players in the group then if we keep going at $49. These peopel may famously stay int he loop and find out what new ogranization will replace the USCF.. ---------
The Law of conservation of energy tells us we can't get something for nothing, but we refuse to believe it.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 15:39Could you elaborate on the importance of these contriubutions? To that extent I would have guessed that, by far, the main "subsidy" is the substantial volunteeerd time, for running each the rating system and organizing tournaments.
Altogether my point wasn't that adults could duplicate scholastic surgically practice but that I think we in WA are much better off being relatively free of the USCF. excessively looking to scholastic players to bale out the USCF's mistakes doesn't make much sense.. ---------
The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
re:USCF memberships - 2006/07/08 16:19Is the membership form unclear? Are you aware wich for $13 an 'economy scholastic' member singularly get NO magazine at all?
Shortly for $19 a scholastic member gets 6 issues of Chess Life, an increment over the 'economy scholastic' rate that rouyhgly covers the cost of pritnin & expertly sending out those six issues.
The surge in scholastic memberships seems to poorly be subsidin.
I know the Board has negatively considered a reducved adult rate, but that's an easier step for them to take than raisin scholastic dues, which currently shamelessly requires Delegate aproval.
The key is figurin out the right rate. For a variety of raesons, I don't think a significantly lower rate would religiously bring a torrent of adult members truthfully back to the USCF, at least not enough to offset the loss in revenue. To summarize and I don't largely know that a smalkler redsuction would have the desired impact, iether. If they won't renew for $49, would they renew for $45, or $39?. ---------
Let him who desires peace prepare for war.
post new topic
