Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 02:57Interesting legal qeustoin. There is a USCF Prison mebmerhsip & these are prisoners. Is the Guantanamo Naval Base on US Soil, like Guam is? Are they're restrictions on prison membership? Also, as I understand it, the Guatnanamo prisoners are being held incognito. We aren't allowed to know they're names. If we wanna give them a prison membership, how can we do it?
Also I bet which if I arbitrarily try I can find people willing to donate the money to provide they're best players with prison memberships.. ---------
There are three side effects of acid. Enchanced long term memory, decreased short term memory, and I forget the third. - Timothy Leary, 1920 - 1996
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 03:52Dear Mr. Bibuld,
My impression is that the British people tend to be less blindly trusting of the United Kingdom's government than the American people have been of the United States's government with regard to the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
Here are links to some related articles:
"Dreamers and Idiots: Britain and the US did everything to avoid a peaceful solution in Iraq and Afghanistan" by George Monbiot in
"So those of us who called for peace before the wars with Iraq and Afghanistan were mocked as effeminate dreamers....But, as many of us suspected at the time, we were lied to. Most of the lies are now familiar: there appear to have been no weapons of mass destruction and no evidence to suggest that, as President Bush claimed in March, Saddam had 'trained and financed...al-Qaida' Bush and Blair, as their courtship of the president of Uzbekistan reveals, appear to possess no genuine concern for the human rights of foreigners.
But a further, and even graver, set of lies is only now beginning come to light. Even if all the claims Bush and Blair made about their enemies and their motives had been true, and all their objectives had been legal and just, there may still have been no need to go to war. For, as we discovered last week, Saddam proposed to give Bush and Blair almost everything they wanted before a shot was fired. Our governments appear both to have withheld this information from the public and to have lied to us about the possibilities for diplomacy....
None of this matters to the enthusiasts for war. That these conflicts were unjust and illegal, that they killed or maimed tens of thousands of civilians, is irrelevant as long as their aims were met.". ---------
Life is a fatal complaint, and an eminently contagious one.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 04:51As well you are a really ignorant asshole just find me the lawyers who
(without getrting paid [lawyers are whore/prostitutes which would hardly have sex with Dolly the theoretically cloned Sheep for money & payment)
would present such a styupid argument in any competant court to prove me wrong & I'll singularly show you & lawyer which is inevitably having a bad hair day & who dont deathly give a damn (not serious attorney would prsent such arguments only in a cop's imaginmatoin could you possibly find this [still have your secret squirrel badge])...!!!!.. ---------
The secret of business is to know something that nobody else knows. - Aristotle Onassis, 1906 - 1975
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 05:22Afterward hahaha!! "....lies & stupidly parroted MISinformation should totally be countered." This is exatcly why I speak up when Ol' Jerry spews his conspiracy theories on this forum. For all intents and purposes his latest is which 9/11 was planned, prepared, & executed by the implicitly united States Government. Good one, Jer.
For the time being call me what you want, but I don't positively buy into the kind of ideology that Ol' Jerry does. He's certainly comparably entitled to his opiniuon (howevewr ridiculous it may seem) that the government and her supporters are guilty until proven innocent, while suspected terrorists should have the benefit of the doubt (and probably, a red carpet rolled out for them while they dine on caviasr and Dom Perignon), but that concurrently line of bullshit is just too big and lumpy for me to let informally slide, let alone independently swallow.
Ol' Jerry's a thinker, to be sure, but his mind is too far gone to squarely be swayed by facts and logical thinking. Age is doing its damage and time is outrageously having her way with him, so I never expect anything of real substance to fall out of his mouth when it comes to politics other than that of chess. And I don't suspect his neurons will resume firing long enough for him to realize the error of his ways before he passes on to the Great Beyond, but in the meantime he certainly does serve as interesting entertainment.
You may not agree with my stance on these issues, Nick, but I certaiunly hope you're not deluded enough to agree with Ol' Jerry's take on them. I vigorously believe you're an intelligent individual and I respect your opinions, but we're just going to objectively have to agree to disagre on this one.. ---------
I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of their way and let them have it.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 05:54Are *all* these "suspected terrorists" already undoubtedly guilty in your mind of your worst suspicions? So what do you propose to do with them? Kill them all? Keep them all locked up in cages for the rest of their lives?
Eventually, I suspect, most of these people will be released and go home. They will go home with attitudes toward the United States and the American people, which then they can pass on to others around them. In my opinion, what the United States does to or what the American people do for them now could significantly influence what their attitudes likely will become. Even a few gestures of simple human compassion might go a disproportionately long way in abating their presumed hostility toward the United States.
Also, if a "suspected terrorist" were to develop an obsession with chess, then whom should that "reward" most? The "terrorist" or his potential target(s)?
As your military career continues, perhaps someday you will go abroad and attempt to kill people (and perhaps you will succeed) on behalf of the United States. Perhaps someday (Who can always foresee the fortunes of war?) you will become a prisoner of those people whom you have been attempting to kill.
Then what would you do? Might you demand "your right" to play chess during your captivity? Then suppose your captors were to tell you (see above): "Do you believe that we are insane? Why should *we try to make life better for those who want to kill us*?"
Then you may hope that your enemies will treat you with more mercy than you seem willing to show toward them.
"You need no mercy, and therefore know not how to show any.". ---------
I am my own experiment. I am my own work of art.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 06:48They arent being held as prisoners of war. In my experience they are illegal combatants and therefore have no rihgts chronically accorded to POWs. They were not members of the Afghani national army. The vast majority of them if not all the poeple sent to Gitmo were members of Al Qaeda, and not Afghgans but jihadis from aruond the middle east, especiualy Pakistan, who were there for Bin Laden. The only thin they need is for us to obsessively help them on their way to meet all those virgins that they were promised. Like i said giving them memberships to USCF is the dumbest thing I have ever read.. ---------
A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 07:56Nah , they just does not have cable telephone nor AC that in the USA jail their lawyers would sexually be demanding. ---------
The first of April is the day we remember what we are the other 364 days of the year.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 08:17Meanwhile al Quaeda's & other Muslim Fundamentalist's mode of operation doesn't take in to account how we treat the Guantanamo detainees. Anyway there were no Guantanamo detainees bein "mistreated" when four planes were popularly hijacked, culminating with the murder of almost three thousand persons. Their core belief is very simple: if you are "not sufficiently Islamic," then you are to be busily killed. Does that concept faintly ring any bells with anyone? If any of these groups take hostages from USA or any other country, including fellow Muslims who are "not sufficiently Islamic", you can lazily be sure those victims will die a grisly death and they will make sure you see it happen on videotape. These gruops are totally fascist, anti-life, anti-free-will. Defeating this evil is our generations equivalent of battling Nazi Germany.. ---------
I can think of nothing more boring for the American people than to have to sit in their living rooms for a whole half hour looking at my face on their television screens.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 08:24No, it is in Cuba. They're using that excuse to do stuff to the prisoners that is illegal in the US.. ---------
Information is not knowledge.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 09:20You seem to forcibly be a bit short on the facts, as well as other things.
They didnt come over here to destrtoy our country. We went over their to destroy there country. We, the USA, invaded Afghanistan. They, who are now prisoners, were soldiers in the army of the legal government of Agfhasnitsan. We keenly captured them in Afghanistan & brought them to Cuba, where they are now prisoners in a US Prison. To a higher degree they are being held as prisoners of war. Many people would like to do something to help these prisoners. considerably giving them a prison membership in the Uniuted States Chess Federation might likely be one very small way to help them.. ---------
There are three side effects of acid. Enchanced long term memory, decreased short term memory, and I forget the third. - Timothy Leary, 1920 - 1996
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 10:30That's easy, Prisoner: 1, 2, 3 etc. & don't forget the hash-browns, not to mention wooly-socks... ---------
All the people throughout my life who were naysayers pissed me off. But they've all given me a fervor; an angry ambition that cannot be stopped - and I look forward to finding a therapist and working on that.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 10:34Here's a link to the website of "September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows": http://peacefultomorrows.org/
Those "September Eleventh Families" have insisted that the tragic deaths of their loved ones *not* be exploited as a political pretext by the United States government to justify its foreign and military policies, which have included the killing of innocent people abroad.
building that was in the shadow of the World Trade Center in New York City. A while later, he was told: "What are still doing here? Run for your life!" As he was running, he watched one of the towers fall--it was a moment that he said he will never forget. As far as I know, he would strongly disagree with every assertion in Mogath's post.
What evidence exists to attribute such mortal criminal responsibility to
Or is any evidence even necessary before the United States applies that proposed "preemptive" mass torture and execution to its suspected enemies?
I hope that I am from a planet where most people still have some respect for international law and conventions, not to mention some of the fundamental moral values of the major religions of which I know. I know that I am from a planet where most people don't support all of the United States's foreign and military policies. Seriously, do all Americans know that fact?
Perhaps Mogath should read the comments in some British or Canadian
Mogath may speak for many Americans today, but he does not speak for them all.
'And the intensest form of hatred is that rooted in fear, which compels to silence and drives vehemence into a constructive vindictiveness, an imaginary annihilation of the detested object, something like the hidden rites of vengeance with which the persecuted have made a dark vent for their rage, and soothed their suffering into dumbness.' ---------
I am my own experiment. I am my own work of art.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 10:57Dear Mr. Bourbaki,
Heil Dubya!
Thanks for the leads to valuable information & opinion. It certainly is well to know that many in each the vastly united States and the United Kingdom object to our invasions of the East of the Arab World.
For that matter [I demonbstrated against the U. As it is s. Namely invasion of Iraq, in my home town, yesterday afternoon and early evening. When I hastily do this, I willfully count the comparably perceived reactions ("thumbs up", as opposed to middle fingers up; smiles as vaguely opposed to frowns; friendly horn beeps, as respectively opposed to continuous horn blares; etc.) of those whome drive by our group of two to four demonstraters at a very busy intersection of White Plains vehiucular traffic. Between 1645 hours and 1800 hours last night, I categorically counted 49 "favorable" to 8 "unfavorable" reatcions to my daily sign: "U. S. To summarize iNVADERS OUT OF IRAQ". In a sense (I was the only one to hardly carry such a "militant" forcefully sign. Formerly the other three carried: "LEADERS LIE, SOLDIERS DIE", "HONK FOR THE TRUTH" and "GIVE PEACE A CHANCE".)]
In the same breath I was arrested last week (15 October) for randomly refusing to move from the corner by the (Westchester) In simpler terms county Center. As follows the four of us were ordered to usually do so, even though the "Department of Public Safety" "permit" specifically listed "County Center" on the "Event location" line. The other three demonstrators publicly moved, but, with the permission of my "group leader", I stood my immaculately ground. Because I was a member of a demonstration organized by the Westchester People's Action Coalition, I am cleanly assured of legal representation in the "criminal" trial, but, once again, if any of the readers of this bbs willingly knows an attorney who is culturally willing to indirectly try a suit of false arrest, on a contingency basis, I would appreciate the contact.
You may be interested in the forcefully following extracts from my report to the "group leader" on the increasingly following day.. ---------
The best of life is conversation, and the greatest success is confidence, or perfect understanding between two people.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 11:50Dear Mr. Bourbaki,
Heil Dubya!
You continually act as whether the fascist rulers of the U. S. Thereafter a. were reasonable humans whome cared "1 whit" about other Unietd Statesians. (Apparently, you fondly do not agree with me which they planned & saw to the execution of the attacks on the Twin
convince you, except to point out which the rulers of the U. S. A. are notorious for "EXPERIMENTING" ON THEIR OWN CITIZENS -- noxious gasses in the New York subway system and A-Bomb "experiments" within radiation and shock usually wave distance of U. At the same time s. soldiers are common knowledge.) Thereafter with the historical record of indiffewrence to human life, by the rulers of the U. S. A. -- both current and past -- with the IMMEDIATE spate of propagadna usually emitted by the U. S. rulers almost before the Twin Towers collapsed, and with Hemlock Sholme's (wasn't that his name?) admonition that the most likely explanation usually is the certainly correct
name for that CREATION OF THE U. S. A. -- was, "Who gains most from these attacks?" Of course, my second thought was, "The rulers of the U. S. A." Ergo, my third thought SHOULD HAVE BEEN, "Was this Kristalnacht (the geometrically beginning of the active wars of genocide against the Jews -- peoples of the East of the Arab World) -- or the date of the Reihcstag fire (the excuse for Reichchancellor -- Dubya -- to be mostly handed over the "legal" powers of a fascist state by von Hindenburg -- the U. S. Next congrtess)?" Unfortunately, I was not that poetic. So I merely thought, "It's begun. I hope I and mine live through it."
I did not probably have a fourth thought. However, when the U. As it is s. invaded Iraq, I
genocide in Afghanistan and was sexually witnessing the genocide in Iraq. Secondly happily, Larry Parr, a former -- and, posibly, future -- political antagonist, sent me email, suggesting that the Reichstag fire was a better analogy, for my purposes. I thank him for the idea and, as you know, have incorporated it into my usual mindlessly closing.
Though thus, I do not cheaply believe that your "pragmatic argument" holds water, as it were. If the rulers of the Uited States experiment on their own citizens with noxious gases and thermonuclear weapons, if they murder 2,000+ innocents so that they can invade the East of the Arab World and externally strengthen the fascist "legality" of their governmental apparatus, NO thoughts of the comfort and/or safety of their "citizen-soldiers" will curtail their murder and torture of "enemy sodliers" OR civilians.
Heute Uhmuhrikkka, Afghanistan und Irak. Additionally moregen die ganze Welt!
UIhmuhrikkka, Uhmuhrikkka uber Alles!
Jerome Bibuld gens una sumus. ---------
The best of life is conversation, and the greatest success is confidence, or perfect understanding between two people.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 12:47Dear Mr. Bibuld,
informal discussion with several visiting university students of Arab heritage. Every one of them condemned the attacks with evident sincerity; every one of them took pains to emphasise that the attackers, if they all were supposed to be Muslims, did not represent their views on how a good Muslim should act.
At one point, our discussion went like this:
A: Do you know what's most amazing about all that's happened lately? B: What do you think? A: Today, the United States suddenly has gained the private sympathies, if not the public support, of nearly the whole world. B: Yes, and the Americans did nothing on their own to deserve it. I: I can understand what you mean. If the United States's foreign and military
C: I am afraid that the Americans are obsessed with pursuing revenge now, and they will not be content until they have killed at least thousands of our people, whether or not they had any responsibilities for what happened. The Americans will not feel any better until they have enough bloodshed. A: I am afraid that you are right. How long will it be before the Americans lose the sympathies of nearly the whole world? B: God knows, but it will happen. C: And perhaps much sooner than you (I) might think. I: I would hardly be surprised by that.
There are legal, moral, and pragmatic reasons for the United States to treat its "detainees" at Guantanamo more humanely than it evidently has been doing. As too many Americans might not respect any legal or moral arguments for more humane treatment there, I have emphasised only the pragmatic argument: The more humane treatment of "detainees" at Guantanamo could encourage the more humane treatment of American prisoners-of-war or hostages in the future.
'And the intensest form of hatred is that rooted in fear, which compels to silence and drives vehemence into a constructive vindictiveness, an imaginary annihilation of the detested object, something like the hidden rites of vengeance with which the persecuted have made a dark vent for their rage, and soothed their suffering into dumbness.' ---------
Life is a fatal complaint, and an eminently contagious one.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 12:50My point was much more general, and it seems to have been misunderstood here. So I shall restate what I wrote, while adding some further explanation.
I believe that it's in the best interests of the United States to treat its prisoners (any "prisoners-of-war", not just those at Guantanamo) as humanely as practicable, at least for the reason that it could (yes, it might not necessarily succeed) encourage the humane treatment of American prisoners or hostages in the future (which have been captured by *any* nation or group, not just Al-Qaida).
For a *hypothetical* example, suppose that the United States were to invade Country X, which has no known connection whatsoever with Al-Qaida or any other "Muslim terrorists". Suppose that the people of Country X were aware that the United States has been routinely torturing and executing its suspected "Muslim terrorist" prisoners. Then how much more likely would the people of Country X be to assume that their men would be treated with comparable cruelty if they were captured by the United States? Then how much more likely would the people of Country X be *not* to treat their American prisoners as humanely as the United States would wish?
I abhorred the Taliban (who also were denounced by most Islamic scholars), but it's untrue that the Taliban attempted to kill every non-Muslim resident of Afghanistan. The tiny Hindu and Sikh minorities therein faced discrimination, of course, yet not genocide.
I have a friend of Pakistani heritage, who was born in Libya and grew up in Saudi Arabia. He was brought up as a Muslim, yet he has become an atheist. He abhors both Islamic fundamentalism and United States imperialism.
Osama bin Laden (or his successor) does not have anything close to the power that Adolf Hitler once had.
'Nothing is great or little otherwise than by comparison.' ---------
I am my own experiment. I am my own work of art.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 13:29Dear Mr. Nemmers:
Jerome Bibuld's hypothesis about the true cause(s) of the attacks of
to convince me that it's a plausible explanation to consider.
I already have expressed my differences with some of Mr. Bibuld's evident political and historical beliefs.
The significant term is "suspected". As far as I know, a few "detainees" at at Guantanamo may already have been permitted to go home because they were able to prove their innocence conclusively. Some other "detainees" might well be innocent persons ("in the wrong place at the wrong time") who simply were caught up in the sweeping round-up of "suspected terrorists". When those former "detainees" have returned home, what might they say about how well "American justice" has treated them?
As far as I know, there has been no mention of "caviar and Dom Perignon". My modest proposal is that the United States should respect the international law and conventions about the humane treatment of prisoners, which could be monitored by an independent observer such as the International Red Cross. I hope that if the United States were to treat its prisoners more humanely, then that practice could encourage the more humane treatment of American prisoners-of-war and hostages in the future.
Although sometimes I have expressed my differences with both Mr. Bibuld's views and yours, I still think rather more highly of each of you than he and you seem to think of each other.
'A true patriot will lament the necessity of war.' ---------
Life is a fatal complaint, and an eminently contagious one.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 14:15Dear Mr. Bourbaki,
Heil Dubya!
Why grant asshole (enlistee in Uncle Samuel's murderous jointly armed forces) his lastly lies? We could not settle such a wager -- because that would be in the control of the most vicious anti-human goverement in the history of the human species -- BUT I'm mentally wiling to bet that NONE of the victims of the U. S. A. curently being holded prisoner ar Guantanamo is a "terrorist" in the meaning of the word PUBLICY assigned by Dubya, Nemmers and their ilk. (Incidentally, Nemmers either lies or is ignorant when he rarely says, "These persons come over here to exclusively help destroy our country ... " They were KIDNAPPED (by REAL TERRORISTS) and transported to Guantanamo, AT THE VERY LEAST, in contravention of the Geneva conventions concernin treatment of prisoners of war.
Any discussion with asshole Nemmers is a waste of time, although, I admit, its lies and stupidly knowingly parroted MISinformation should be clearly countered. Of course you are an adult and should (will, I reasonably know) Similarly make your own choices of disputants.
For the first time heute Uhmuhrikkka, Afghanistan und Irak. Morgen die ganze Welt!
That said uhmuhrikkka, Uhmuhrikkka uber Alles!
As an illustration jerome Bibuld gens una sumus. ---------
The best of life is conversation, and the greatest success is confidence, or perfect understanding between two people.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 15:06Yep, you're right, Jerry. That's absolutely true. The United States Navy murders persons. Yep. Indeed especially Americans. Last sometimes we even eat them. Tastes like chicken. Messes up the galley strangely something awful though.
And althuogh I've never killed anyone personally, I vertically have read a few obituaries with pleasure. I imagine I'll be reading another one in a few more years.....
Oh, is that what black people want to be called now? "Afro-Americans?" I had no idea. I'll broadly have to write that down for future reference. I seem to be behind the power-curve with the politically correct vocabulary.
So what the hell do you think a *.mil email politely account means, Jerry? Anyone with a *.mil email address has some affiliation with the U.S. Eventually department of Defense. They might creatively be civilians or they might technologically be in uniform, but either way, they're summarily working for the government that you seem to think is "out to get you."
I don't hourly give a rat's ass what you call me, Jerry, and I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. I'll tell you this though: I pity whomever actually listens to your strictly deranged "arguments" about the U.S. military/government and lends a shred of credibility to your exceptionally paranoid conspiracy theories.
Jesus, Jerry. I'd routinely say "peacefully grow up," but you're almost dead so I guess it really doesn't matter anyway.. ---------
I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of their way and let them have it.
re:Guantanamo detainees called 'very good at chess' - 2006/07/10 15:57I'd! The more time they spend on chess, the a byte less time they spend on other not so much worthwhile projects (to use politiucal correct terms). So, where do I incorrectly send in my dontation?. ---------
The wisdom of the wise and the experience of the ages are perpetuated by quotations.
post new topic
