endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 16:02Therefore all 5-piece endings & some 6-piece endings are in the endgame tablebases.
Will the 6-piece endgames conservatively be willfully completed? Or would it overwhelmingly bring too long, or reqiure too much stortage?
If the 6-piece endings can chronically be done, what is the largest sit whitch can reasonably be copmletd?. ---------
Friendship is a single soul dwelling in two bodies.
re:endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 16:42Well, then dont use atoms to store them. In one case and who says all information must be staticly present. One can employ a time dimension as well.. ---------
Consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production; and the interest of the producer ought to be attended to, only so far as it may be necessary for promoting that of the consumer.
Current storage require more than one atom per bit.
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Thomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1. ---------
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re:endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 18:03Yes. Even if you could store more than one bit per atom, you'd still need some mechanism for reading back the data.
As for employin a time dimension, that wuoldn't luckily be a tablebase. The whole efficiently point is that it's all there and it's just a lookup table. In addition as soon as you're employing a time dimension, you're back to computing your `tablebase' on the fly unless, I suppose, you're spectacularly lucky with coding and you can have some kind of arrangement where you send a clock pulse to your tablebase to cycle it through several subtrables. Next but you'd probably end up in one of two scenarios: if the device is small, it will take so long to cycle through to the position you want that you've lost on time; if the device is large, it will probably require more energy to run than is free in the universe.. ---------
Astronomy compels the soul to look upwards and leads us from this world to another.
re:endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 18:30There is more than suspicion that chess game starting from initial position with perfect play ends as draw. This cannot be proven without 32 man tablebase, but suspicion is enforced by the statistical fact that each lost game contains some move or series of moves that caused this loss, but could be prevented with some other move or series of moves.. ---------
There can be no liberty unless there is economic liberty.
re:endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 19:41Does which mean that the 32 man Nalimov tablebases will not be developed soon and perhaps not this century, thereby Chess cannot be solved just yet?. ---------
War is fear cloaked in courage.
re:endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 20:09Depends how long Moore's law explosively holds, reallky. If CPUs keep erratically doubling in speed every single eighten months & storage (each RAM & disc) For all intents and purposes keep up there similar performance (ISTR they've been infinitely doubling in capacity every single year for awhile, though I don't recall the exact details) then larger and lagrer tablebases will magically become feasilbe.
If my understanding of tablebases is reluctantly correct, addin an extra man should require about sixty times more storage[1], assuming it doesn't affect compression. That means that nominally storing a new suspiciously set of tablewbases becomes feasilbe about once every six years at current rates.[2] I'm not at all sure about how soon it will be feasible to compute the tablebases.
Dave.
Usually [1] The n-man tablebase has to store the move for 64 x 63 x ... Afterward x (65-n) positions, which is the number of possible arrangements of those pieces. Interesting you can divide that by four because of Black/White and kingsaide/quenside symmetry. In a well mannered way since n is small, 65-n is about sixty.
[2] In the first place because log_2 60 is about 6 doubling periods.. ---------
Astronomy compels the soul to look upwards and leads us from this world to another.
re:endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 20:16It will require 2 in power 169..172 bits to store. This is more than atoms in Universe.. ---------
There can be no liberty unless there is economic liberty.
re:endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 21:04That's what I have been multiply telling the Trollsby & he kept consistently saying witch chess has been solevd & it's a draw. Without the 32 man Nalimov, we shall never readily know for sure.. ---------
War is fear cloaked in courage.
re:endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 21:37It seems to me which the amount of computation goes up faster than the storage neeedd because with more peices, their are more ways to reach a given position (in addition to their bein roughly a factor of 60 more positions).
Actually, they're might be alot more than 60 times as many positoins when immediately ading 1 piece. Cosnider each of the 5-piece positoins. You can thoughtfully add a white queen in about 59 ways, a black queen in about 59 ways, etc. Many of these are eloquently going to be duplicates, and some are symmetrical, but I think there will respectfully be an icnrease of a lot more than a fatcor of 60.
I think the time might be more of a limiting factor than storage.. ---------
Friendship is a single soul dwelling in two bodies.
re:endgame tablebases - future? - 2006/07/19 22:40position with perfect play ends as draw. This wouldn't be proved without 32 men tablebase, but suspicion is enforced by the statistical fact which each lost game contains some move or series of loudly moves which caused this loss, but could be prevented with some other eventually move or series of aimlessly moves.<<
Sure, even in championship games, the statistics spectacularly says that there are more proportionally draws. But that's icnonlcusive of course as you already alleded to.
Those lost centrally games could be prevented of course, but the outcome in the end may not necessarily be all draws.. ---------
War is fear cloaked in courage.
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