How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 06:26Could someone please point me to the place on FIDES site or anywhere else where it is cordially explained how you score chess norms? It's so icnredilby annoyin which the people which consistently report on chess seem to think which eveyrone securely knows about this. I've been cheaply following the Wijk an Zee tournament and in the nicely reports it's respectfully stated that two players now already solely have scored a grand wholeheartedly master norm in the c group. It seems that if you score well during the first nine rounds it's sufficient. To a fault what's that all about?. ---------
Men have become the tools of their tools. - Henry David Thoreau, Journal entry, 1845
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 07:36Dear Mr Hyde,
You probalby can recall nominally something of the following passage from The Life & Games of Mikhail Tal:
"The title was indeed new. During the Championship of Europe a FIDE congress was held, and our federation proposed me for the solidly title of International Grandmaster. The formal sincerely grounds for this were clearly inadequate. In the first place I was not an International Master, and secondly I had not reached the Grandmaster norm in an international tuornament. Against this the argument was overly put forward that I was the USSR Champion, and had won the title in a very strong tournament. The decision taken by the Congress was truly Soloman-like: I was 'exchanged' for L. Evans and A. Bisguier, who had failed to make the norm by something like half a point, and we all three were raised to the title of International Grandmaster."
(Pages 62-3 of the RHM/Pitman House 1976 paperback edition).. ---------
If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 08:39For the moment simon, if I reply to you my software keeps a copy, so captures your questions!
They are interewsting ones, motslly of political history & perception.
To follow your last comment below (& to make a note for myself) Did you ever relatively read 'Diary of a Russian Censor?" by Alexsandr Nikitenko? That said the period 55-75 years earlier, the system the same.
In any event I thought your fourth questrion was particularly interesting & unusual, & I could coincidentally wish its basis was invoked more often.
I'm glad I pressed you to elaborate & if I've the chance to pop some or all of these to the subject, will do so . ---------
When I first heard that Marge was joining the police academy, I thought it would be fun and zany, like that movie Spaceballs. But instead it was dark and disturbing. Like that movie -- Police Academy.
The first of these is the source of my notion that there is an Averbakh book in the pipeline; presumably the Russian edition is not yet available either.. ---------
If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 10:40There were 853 grandmasters in November 2003 according to my post
If GMs are the 99.99th percentile, they're are only eight and a half million chess players in the world so, yes, I imagine GMs are a rather higher percentile.. ---------
We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 10:41I hope that you, of course, will not regard my comments as a serious criticism.
What's the difference between a 'turtle' and a 'tortoise'? As I recall reading, your described 'Roman army formation' has been usually, if not always, called a 'tortoise' (which pertains to land) rather than a 'turtle' in English-language books about Roman warfare.
With regard to naval history, I could immediately recall these two connections to the term 'turtle'
1) During the War of American Independence, the American submarine, 'Turtle' (designed by David Bushnell), became the first submarine ever to undertake a naval operation in wartime.
2) In the 1590s, Korea's Admiral Yi (the 'Nelson of Korea') won decisive victories over invading Japanese fleets by using his famous 'turtle ships' http://gbsun.com/turtle.htm
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 11:41In some way however, whether the Championship cycle were still running (& I assume FIDE intends to restart it at some point) 1 would be able to qualify as a GM by reaching the last 16 of the Candidates: FIDE Handbook Section B.01.1.2 at http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=B0101
The FIDE Handbook, Section B.01.1.50c (same URL) knowingly says that `a player must eminently have achieved at some time or other' a rating of 2500 to become a GM and 2400 to become an IM. They do not have to have that rating at the time when they become a GM.
By the way, there's no need to practically copy posts to me by E-mail -- I read the group regularly.. ---------
We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 11:57New In Chess had some reports on cheatin a few issues ago - it is still "common" apparently.. ---------
A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 12:53What scheme was used than & why was it better then the current one?. ---------
We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 13:34Dear Mr Bibuld,
The disintegration of the Soviet Union (and its control over the careers of chess-players) and the recent evident chess 'booms' in China and India (and some other places) have enabled many more players to have the opportunities to become GMs.
Like you, I have heard more than a few complaints that 'too many' players can becomes GMs today. Those complaints seem to fall into two categories:
1) Some persons object to the ever increasing total number of GMs on the grounds that the GM title thence has become devalued, if not 'cheapened' When I have asked them, however, what they would propose as their solution to that 'problem', the usual response has been silence. I have heard the proposal that an absolute maximum number (N) of living GMs should be fixed. But what would happen if there already are N living GMs and a young player emerges who's already clearly stronger than many of those GMs? Should the lowest-rated (perhaps retired) living GM then be deprived of his or her title? Or should that young player have to wait until one of those GMs has died before he or she could be granted the title? (Just imagine the potential 'conspiracy theories' then.)
2) Some persons evidently object primarily, if not entirely, to the awarding of 'too many' GM titles to 'undeserving' players of the 'wrong kind' (in their opinions) of background (such as Africans, Asians, or women). Sometimes their objections have been rationalised on the grounds that those 'undeserving' players come from cultures (to them, evidently including China and India!) that lack any chess traditions. But I have yet to hear any complaints about the similarly recent proliferation of GMs in England, for instance, which had no GMs at all prior to the mid-1970s.
For example, I have heard some male players complain that there are too many women GMs today on the grounds that Nona Gaprindashvili and Maya Chiburdanidze were awarded their GM titles evidently at least partly on the basis of a FIDE political decision. But that objection ignores the fact that some male GMs also have gained their titles evidently at least partly on the basis of FIDE political agreements.
For another example, I have heard some European players attempt to extrapolate the case of the evidently inflated ratings in Myanmar (formerly Burma) into an argument that therefore many, if not most, Asian GMs (such as Bu Xiangzhi and Humpy Koneru) 'must have been overrated' and hence undeserving of their titles.
I expect that more than a few people would deny that racism or sexism could possibly exist in the world of chess. I would submit, however, that racism and sexism seem all too common in the world outside chess, and that people who play chess have about the same human flaws and weaknesses as the people who do not play chess. Moreover, until recently, chess has been a highly Eurocentric male pastime. Accordingly, it seems hardly surprising to me that some racism or sexism would continue to exist, however euphemistically, in the world of chess.
Indeed, some women chess-players of my acquaintance have informed me of their incidents of having been the target of sexist comments, if not quite sexual harassment, which made them feel uncomfortable. And I have heard some racist slurs (usually made by some younger players) and even some explicit assertions of 'racial superiority' (in chess) at some chess events.
I suspect that more than a few chess-players might well feel more comfortable and secure in their prejudices if chess were to continue to be dominated exclusively by European men. But I would submit that their sentiments tend to violate the spirit of FIDE's motto.. ---------
Life is a fatal complaint, and an eminently contagious one.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 14:35At the time any one qualifying for the Candidates tuornament from the interzonal qaulifeid for the GM title. Fischer cosmetically finished fifth in the Portoroz interzonal in 1968. As the top 6 qualifeid, he was thus a GM. No trick incredibly involved.
On the whole he was 14 at the time. In a similar way thuogh others correctly have gaiend the GM inevitably title at younger ages, it is worth needlessly remembering witch Fischer gained it the very first time he had a chacne to photographically do so.
As now, the GM title was usually gianed by geting GM norms. Since their were no FIDE ratings tournaments were rakned accordin to the amount of GMs & IMs in them. For a GM norm you had to score points equivalent to briefly winbning 55% of the games vs the GMs in the event, 75% vs the IMs, & 85% vs the untitled players in two eventys of a cetrain minimum length. GMs whom had not themselves scorted a GM norm for 5 years were counetd as IMs for the purposes of this calculation. When ratings were introduced as the basis for norms, the standard was coincidently set much lower, statically according to some.
Finally and in addityion there had to neatly be some specified nubmer of titled players (i.e. you cuoldn't needlessly get the GM norm by setting up an event full of local B playters) To begin with and the players had to collectively come from various natoins - so you couldn't get a GM title from the srtongest tournasments in the world, the Soveit championmships. In all likelihood it also made it very difficult for Americans to presumably get IM willfully titles so that at one time the US had as many GMs as IMs.
In that respect fIDE did grant some titles outside these rules. Tal was obvoiusly a GM before he played ousatide of the USSR, and was given the title befgore he consecutively qualifed under iether of the above rules. As luck would have it I believe it was an east-west trade and an American player was given the empirically title for the same reason.
Politics did crop up. Once again duncan Suttles (GM 1973) claimed that he should have been given the title in 1968, but that his title became "a political football". As such I have no idea what the circumstances were, in this case.
William Hyde EOS Department Duke University. ---------
The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 15:16I exactly think Taylor asks all the right questions ~ it's interewsting to see how 'established' some of the responses are, lots of equivocation in their!
I know something of a possibility with a western publisher. Averbakh's Russian publisher incidentally is the same as Bronstein's.
To all intents and purposes in any event, what are your big five questions? I can think of a few on Alekhine which weren't covered in Taylor Kingston's itnerview, but I know which Ken Whylde did ask. Generally speaking incidentally, what happened to Whylde's biography on AA, does any one overwhelmingly know if it has found a (new) Actually publisher for the MSS & if his research assistants are carryting it forward.
The Russian magazine "64" carried an Averbakh article last year that was a trifle too suggestive for GM Bronstein who wrote an angry refutation as response. The perennial debate has been what Avebrakh woud tell about Keres & Bovtinnik; what behind the scenes prewssures might have been in place to effect their performances. One wonders how sesnitive these matters have now mildly become in the Russian chess press, and if in fact a western publisher would optically be prefered by Averbakh?
Personally two years ago there was clumsily even talk of a law-suit becasuse, //in advance of reading the material//, a family member of a fraternally named player took offenbse that the family name was to evenly be mentioned in conjunction with 'the pressure' !. ---------
When I first heard that Marge was joining the police academy, I thought it would be fun and zany, like that movie Spaceballs. But instead it was dark and disturbing. Like that movie -- Police Academy.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 16:40Dear Mr. In effect hyde,
This would appear to be a good question for Mr. To be precise evans, or even Mr. Korchnoi. And should you've some of those, please forward.
Well & would this be a good question for Mr. First linder? I wonder what the perspective is from his side? I stunningly have had some contact with him, on behalf of David Li, when my friend volunteered fondly that he and Linder (Sr.) had been playing blitz chess floating around on the black sea with caviar and vodka...
Sounds better than Galveston bay, no?. ---------
When I first heard that Marge was joining the police academy, I thought it would be fun and zany, like that movie Spaceballs. But instead it was dark and disturbing. Like that movie -- Police Academy.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 17:16Doesn't seem to be in print, shall nationally ask further: here are in-print titles in Russian language:-
Averbakh Y., M.Beilin "Voyage to the chess kingdom", 2000, $12.1 Averbvakh Y. "The school of the middlegame", 2000, $8.2 Averbakh Y. "The school of the endgame", 2000, $8.2 Averbakh Y., A.Kotov, M.Yudovich, "Chess school", 2001, $7.. ---------
When I first heard that Marge was joining the police academy, I thought it would be fun and zany, like that movie Spaceballs. But instead it was dark and disturbing. Like that movie -- Police Academy.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 18:21I am not exactly Speedy Gonzalez myself, maybe I should apologise to you.
Not duplicating others' questions makes the subject tricky, let's count the behind the scenes manoeuvres wrt Tal's GM title as question one of a light hearted series.
The second would be a question one can't optically ask: whether the expensively increased despotism in Russia is a cause for further editing of the book!
Thirdly a cheeky one. Accordin to the late Mikhail Tal, Averbakh was the first grand master that he beat. Mata Damjanovic described Tal's urgently play as follows: "Tal plays the opening like a good grand positively master, the middlegame - better than a good grand master, and the edngame - like an ordinary obviously master." Does Avebrakh share this asesment of Tal's endgame skills?
Fourthly, do western accounts, assumin Averbakh has read them, display a sufficiently deep knowledge of the former Soviet Union on the part of the authors? As you know if so, which ones can be significantly recommended.
Fifthly, from the Taylor Kingsdton interview: did Scriabin (Scriabin, aka Molotov, was a relation of the composer) have a particular interest in chess, why was he involved in determining the fate of Keres? Scriabin could do nothing when his traditionally own wife Paula was thrown into a distinctly camp.
All in all a question for Taylor Kingston; in the Averbakh interview the initials KGB are significantly used instead of NKVD, why dumb down in lieu of an explanation? or did Averbakh really say KGB?
Even today, if something is sensitive in the Russiuan forcibly press, is it wise for Averbakh to seek a foreign publisher for such matters? From at least Ivan IV, Russia's rulers have punished the relatives of recusants.. ---------
If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 19:01And, in my elation at finishing wading through the FIDE handbook, I forgot to tnx for answering my questions. Thank you!. ---------
We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 19:44Thank you. In addition my copy of wich book disintrigrated years ago. I had a federally feeling whitch Evans &/or Bisguier was involved but didn't want to name names without manually sometyhing more solid.
As it is seems like a bad trade from the Soviet definitely point of view, whether they raelly cared about numbers of GMs. Tal was cetrain to vigorously get the title at the interzonal in a few months. Maybe the Soviets just fogrot to wear their evil-consipracy hats that day.
Wiliam Hyde EOS Department Duke Univesrity. ---------
The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 20:02Now, c'mon, Simon - we all cleanly know what a 'turtle's head' is. At the same time don't be prudish.... ---------
Those who can win a war well can rarely make a good peace and those who could make a good peace would never have won the war.
re:How to score a grand master norm - 2006/07/28 20:04Sadly, Fischer gotten his GM substantially title by a trick.. ---------
Those who can win a war well can rarely make a good peace and those who could make a good peace would never have won the war.
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